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Anyone not keep a round in the chamber?

Discussion in 'Handguns' started by Valpo Hawkeye, Nov 14, 2008.

  1. rwdflynavy
    • GITD Manix 2XL Owner

    rwdflynavy Loaded Pockets

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    I can't believe you've carried in your waistband for that long. That style of carry makes no sense to me. If I had to carry that way, I would not feel comfortable having a round chambered either. How many times has the gun slipped down the leg of your pants and fallen on the floor?!
     
  2. Fighthard

    Fighthard Empty Pockets

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    You may not find it reasonable. However, I had to carry that way for many years as a matter of the work that I was involved in. BTW, sometimes you may be able to find a handgun, but a holster is impossible to get. Not in the USA but many other parts of the world.

    Additionally, you may not want to advertise the fact that you are armed to the populace by having a holster.

    If you show up in an airport with holsters in your luggage, it also draws unwanted attention.

    Had I grown up to be a police officer or something of that ilk, where a particular type of firearm is mandated and a holster is necessary, then I might feel like I should wear a holster now.

    BTW, I have never had a firearm fall out of my pants, once placed there. The only inconvenience is that I still have to lay the weapon on the top of my shoe, when I have to attend to one of the calls of Mother Nature.
     
  3. Fighthard

    Fighthard Empty Pockets

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    1. That is the easiest handgun, and the cheapest to get in Iraq. Fortunately for me, the Iraqi Army, Iraqi Police and their other forces have adopted the Glock, which made it easy to get. But last year, the Ministry of the Interior (MOI) which controls contractors and security forces, required all armed PSC's to carry any other weapon than a Glock. Now that being said, they want you to carry a 9mm now, no .40S&W and no .45ACP. Hi Powers that were $35 USD before the war are now $1,200 USD and a CZ 75 is too heavy to carry comfortable even with a holster.

    2. No. And I am not hesistant in the least to carry in this manner, chambered with the hammer down.

    3. If you read my post, I carry a round chambered in everything but a Glock.

    I am sure you have excellent training. Please do not criticize my choice of carry and assume that I am not trained, poorly trained or have bad habits. I spent 14 years carrying non Glock pistols and they had real safety features, like a well a safety, or a hammer.

    I work in a hostile environment, I guarantee that unless you are a Navy SEAL, SOCOM personnel or a national pistol competitor that I have more trigger time than you on the training range.

    Thanks for the advice on the Sharpie and your insight on all the scenarios. I know what I deal with on a daily basis and if you read my post carefully, you will see that the Glock is the only pistol I carry without a round in the chamber. I have never had an ND with a Glock, and I am not going to start now. FWIW, my deployment Glock, has about 2,000 rounds through it and my training/practice Glocks in the US have a total of 60,000 rounds through them.

    Please take this into consideration, unless you are in the same situation, you do not have the same experience and will not have the same opinion.

    BTW, if you don't/can't have a holster for your Glock, and have to throw it into a ruck with a bunch of other stuff quickly, how safe would you feel carrying or removing items from that ruck in the dark with a chambered round in that Glock. From my experience, I would not feel safe.
     
  4. adorable_harree

    adorable_harree Empty Pockets

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    Ditto for me. I practice the same thing. The only guns that is not chamber loaded are the ones I have put away. But the bedside guns and my carry gun as of today I keep cocked and locked.
     
  5. gern_blanston

    gern_blanston Loaded Pockets

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    Colts were designed to be cocked and locked, the USP was designed to be cocked and locked OR uncocked and locked, and the GP100 has the nice transfer-bar system to avoid A/Ds. Not saying accidents don't happen, but in 30 years of carrying and shooting and generally being a firearms guy, I have never had nor witnessed an A/D.
    Doesn't have to do with being smart, just being careful. Just be careful.

    Interesting question. We're all just responding to the O/P's original question. I don't care whether you keep one in the chamber or not, and I'm certainly not trying to push my opinion on anyone.
     
  6. Hectorx

    Hectorx Loaded Pockets

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    When I do carry, it's in condition three, I can draw rack a round and put two in the body and one in the head before most can process the thought they are in a situation where their life in in danger. Hesitation is what kills, not draw speed, what condition, what holster or bag you use.
     
  7. tadbik

    tadbik Empty Pockets

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    Sorry. but this is absolute nonsense! Since the assassination of Rabin there has been a drastic reduction on the amount of citizens (in Israel) that can get pistol permits. The police do not issue pistols to civillians. They have to be privately purchased. It is possible to sign on a rifle from a security co-ordinator of a settlement (yours truly) after a background check and qualification at the firing range. Rifles issued range from the M1 to M16 depending on the location of the settlement/kibbutz.
     
  8. Captain. Glock

    Captain. Glock Empty Pockets

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    I think you should carry a round in the chamber. Just cause there's a round in the chamber doesn't mean that your gun has altered itself and will go of at any given moment. There are multiple safety features on an XD that make it so the only way your gun will fire is if it's in your hand and you've pulled the trigger.
     
  9. 3fgburner

    3fgburner Loaded Pockets

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    Ah, thanks for the info. I stand corrected. "Been there, done that" trumps "Heard it somewhere" every time.
     
  10. 0dBm

    0dBm Loaded Pockets

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    I must have been very busy at the time this thread began, otherwise I would have already answered the direct question below.

    Since the OP did NOT expand the question itself to include a particular circumstance, I shall NOT assume that it is FOR when carried for self defense as the thread seems to have evolved.



    Yes
     
  11. mpi

    mpi Loaded Pockets

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    only a fool would carry an empty sidearm!
     
  12. 0dBm

    0dBm Loaded Pockets

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    While I tend to summarily NOT disagree with this statement as a practice when IN a combat situation, whether during war or IN a civilian self-defense circumstance, or as a belief borne from the edict such as from a much more experienced, authoritarian figure such as a drill instructor to uninitiated recruits or a platoon sergeant to subordinates from whom he requires undivided, single-dimensional obedience, there invariably ARE circumstances in which I am diametrically opposed to it.

    Since you did not preface you statement, I shall do so for mine. Carrying a loaded "sidearm," when not authorized to do so, in some municipalities likely will result in a conviction from the violation of some criminal code.

    But, alas, we stray from the topic and I cannot help but to think that you made your statement as a response to my previous post. Let me expand on my previous post.

    I do not keep a round chambered on the occasion when I transport (can be construed as "carry") the firearm for reasons that do NOT involve its use as a means for self defense.

    The fool is that whom blindly adheres to a belief.
     
  13. 0dBm

    0dBm Loaded Pockets

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    This is no urban legend. This is fact except that their personnel favored the exquisite Browning P-35 Hi-Power due to the higher magazine capacity and lesser recoil with standard-pressure ammunition that equates to greater control and a higher hit probability. "P-35," coincidentally, is their official designation for the Hi-Power.

    One of my earliest instructors when I wore the uniform to serve our country was from that country, serving in a variety of capacities one of which happened to be firearms tactical use.

    Having carried and used the P-35 long before I was officially-trained while active duty in the armed services, I was MUCH more proficient with it and that instructor took a liking to my knowledge of it. He had to teach the way our armed services required him to do so; however, he did show me how his country carried and used it.

    Hammer down and a full magazine, the P-35 was typically carried on-duty in a full-flap leather holster sans the snap but with the flap cutout over stud to keep the noise lever down when opening. Without the holster, it was carried "bandito" (Mexican carry) style tucked just in front of the appendix with the barrel just to the side of the genitals. THIS is why the P-35 was carried without a round chambered.

    From the waistband, the P-35 is drawn with the grip parallel to the ground and with the weak hand already on the slide serrations in one fluid movement. The weak hand holds the slide while the strong hand pushes the frame forward. The weak hand then releases the slide and is moved on top of the fingers of the strong hand for additional support while P-35 grip is positioned perpendicular to the ground. Sights alignment is established and the Mozambique Drill is ready to be executed. This is what I was trained to do. I default to this movement exclusively with the P-35 when I carry it in that condition and is the ONLY semi-auto pistol that I carry that way. The "racking" of the frame vice the slide seems counter-intuitive to many not trained that way, but has become 2nd-nature for me.
     
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  14. J_C
    • In Omnia Paratus

    J_C Loaded Pockets

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    Five years? Took a while to compose that post, eh? ;)
     
  15. 0dBm

    0dBm Loaded Pockets

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    Five minutes. I was researching another topic and stumbled upon this one. It interested me enough to respond to it again. But then again I've reread works that are centuries old and wrote term papers on them.:p
     
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  16. CDKJudoka

    CDKJudoka Loaded Pockets

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    I did for the first time I carried my XDm, but since then I have been locked and loaded.
     
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  17. Phil7153

    Phil7153 Loaded Pockets

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    To carry a gun that is not chambered, is the equivalent to putting a seatbelt on after you get into a car crash. Getting a firearm from concealment up to a target in under a second takes a lot of training, so just imagine how much longer it would take to have to chamber a round after clearing concealment...
     
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  18. 0dBm

    0dBm Loaded Pockets

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    This appears to be a defacto response that I have seen for several decades. Training is the ultimate answer to your question about how long it would take to chamber a round after clearing concealment.

    Event the most novice shooter is able to significantly shorten that time even after just a few short training sessions. I am a steadfast example. I had been a Condition 1 (C1) CCW carrier for almost two decades when I was taught the Condition 3 (C3) mode. I manage to clear leather and execute the Mozambique Drill in less than .6 second with my 1911 and .5 with the P-35 in C1. In C3, 1.2 second with P-35 first time. Within 30 minutes and after 50 dry runs, I managed .95 hot (live rounds) average of five runs. After the third 30 minute session and five more live runs, I managed just under .7 second with C3 from my waistband. That's under ONE SECOND to discharge three rounds AND hit the target at 21 feet when I was much younger. As an old fart with arthritis and quite a bit more muscle mass from 35 years ago, I can still do just over a second. I know several younger people that can do .5 second in C3 with TWO targets; ALL seven of them initially concerned about how long it would take to chamber a round after clearing concealment.

    Training conquers many limitations!
     
  19. Wishoot

    Wishoot Loaded Pockets

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    Wow! Even though this thread is 5 years old, it's still relevant.

    FWIW, if I'm going to go through the trouble of carrying a gun in a good holster, it's going to be loaded with one in the pipe ready to go. I doubt there's an argument out there that will convince me to do otherwise. You can talk all you want about how quickly you can rack a slide, but that's assuming you'll have a had free to do so.

    Suppose you're weak hand is busy trying to fend off a knife attack while you're drawing your gun? What happens if one of your hands is incapacitated? As mentioned 5 years ago in this thread, seconds count. Tenth's of a second count for that matter.

    There's a video out there of a store being robbed by three attackers. One of the victims is shot multiple times as he's attempting to rack the slide of his pistol. The video ends with him slowly dying.

    Do what you want, but I'd prefer to tip the odds in my favor by having one ready to be delivered.
     
  20. 0dBm

    0dBm Loaded Pockets

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    You do whatever you want. I wasn't trying to convince anyone anything. If you had any idea that whatever on these pages is going to convince you of anything that goes against your gut feeling AND your training, you are a BIG fool! Know thyself then train until you can't get it wrong.

    I carry a 1911 and my P-35 in C1. If there was a reason to need to carry in C3, I at least have the option to do so to where I am completely confident with it by being competent with it.