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Anyone not keep a round in the chamber?

Discussion in 'Handguns' started by Valpo Hawkeye, Nov 14, 2008.

  1. sharps_74

    sharps_74 Loaded Pockets

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    No matter which weapon I'm carrying there is a round in the chamber. I do gun shows and as a result have had my choise of hundreds of weapons over the last ten years or so. I currently carry either a Mauser HSc or a Para Ord. custom P14. The P14 is carried cocked and locked. The Mauser always is loaded. What I'm getting at is, you need to ask yourself if you need it in a hurry, will you have time to chamber a round?
     
  2. litework

    litework Loaded Pockets

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    There’s nothing cool about carrying a firearm. It’s actually uncool that there are people out there who would kill you to take the few possessions you have on your person. It is impossible to identify them and, unless you live in a bunker, next to impossible to keep them away if they choose to get close to you. Maybe statistics will say that there aren’t a lot of self-defense shootings. It wouldn’t be too much of a stretch to say that muggings aren’t terribly uncommon, especially given that many go unreported. From victims’ accounts, I can guarantee that if you encounter “good” muggers with your unloaded gun, you will be giving them a better weapon to use the next time they attack.
     
  3. peacefuljeffrey

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    I have questions about those times when "your threat radar is up."

    Do you mean that you are carrying unchambered, and if you see some activity down the street, or somewhere in your vicinity, you then unholster your gun, chamber a round, and then put the gun back into the holster??

    Or do you mean that you chamber a round if you plan to be going into a place where you anticipate threats? Because, well, I thought that we were expected to use discretion and avoid letting our handguns embolden us to go into places where we have an increased expectation of having to use them. Simply put, if you think you're heading into a dangerous situation where you now feel like carrying a chambered round whereas otherwise you would not, you ought to be declining to go there in the first place...
     
  4. peacefuljeffrey

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    And still we have to come back to the question of what is gained by having an empty chamber?

    So you may not ever need to draw and fire one-handed. So maybe in any situation you ever encounter, you will have (fortunately) the time and available hand to chamber a round.

    Assuming that's the case, what was the reason you were declining to carry with a round chambered in the first place? Surely there must be some compelling reason, since not only are you resigning yourself to having to manage to have a free hand if you end up needing your gun, you're also diminishing your gun's capacity by one round. Is this really all about paranoia that the chambered round is somehow going to fire itself when you don't mean it to? I am trying to wrap my head around the (evidently common) feeling that a bunch of gun owners have that their guns are at risk of going off accidentally while holstered. Are people just carrying in really bad holsters these days?


    My decision to carry with a round chambered has absolutely nothing to do wth a perception of "cool." It has to do with my understanding that of all the possible scenarios in which I may need my gun, some will potentially involve an inability to chamber a round at the time I need to fire, and my understanding that my gun is quite safe even with a round chambered because I don't put my finger on the trigger unless I mean to fire.

    You're free to EDC anything you want because "it's cool"--from Atwoods and SAKS and firesteels to handguns. But that's not the reason for many others.

    Actually, the onus of proof would be on those who advocate against chambered carry to demonstrate why it's so dangerous, and what the benefits of carrying unchambered would be in a cost/benefit sort of ratio.
     
  5. plblark

    plblark Empty Pockets

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    I carry with a round in the chamber for several reasons.

    1) Adrenaline and its effects. One of them is trembling hands. Another is degradation in fine motor control.Then there's Sweat... Take them together and I may or may not be able to put one in the chamber when needed. Since I carry because it might be needed, no matter the minuscule possibility, why handicap myself?

    2) without a round in the chamber it's a really short club

    3) usually, the attacker has the initiative and as the victim, I'll likely be behind the curve on reaction so again, why handicap myself


    As a Carry Permit instructor, I treat it this way:

    I personally recommend Chambered round carry. The gun was designed not to go off by itself. Follow the safety rules, pay attention to what you're doing, don't handle it unnecessarily, Carry in a good holster the completely covers the trigger guard and you will be fine.

    Tom Gresham from Gun Talk Radio and Personal Defense TV says all the hooplah is unnecessary, the real answer is CARRY your gun. If you cannot comfortably or confidently carry with a round in the chamber, a gun on your person even without a round chambered is better than one in the safe at home.

    When I first bought a 1911 for carry, I was uncomfortable with Single Action Cocked and Lock carry. So I carried empty chamber and manually cocked hammer (so I could set the manual safety) for a month in a good holster. Guess what? The safety was never wiped off and the hammer never fell. That was what it took for me to get comfortable.

    Whatever you do, think about it, Plan it out, and do it safely. but CARRY your Gun. The time you leave it at home may be the time you need it.
     
  6. maxray

    maxray Loaded Pockets

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    I can honestly say, I have read tens of different threads on different forums about this topic, and NONE have even approached the level of general levelheadedness and good, spirited, friendly debate that this one does. My hat is off to all of you. O0

    I can honestly say, that in my experience, and apparently in some of the others on this thread, overall comfort is a big factor for those of us without "professional" (i.e. military, etc.) firearms training or professions that require them. When I decided to exercise my rights and purchase a handgun it guided my choice to the H&K USP Compact in variant one, which to me appeared to give the most options for configuring the weapon. While I recognized I was adopting potentially dangerous levels of complexity, I was willing to spend time training with the gun in order to get very comfortable with all of its modes. Single action/cocked and locked, DA first shot, Empty chamber, even DA locked. I have put only about 1000 rounds or so through this weapon, and my comfort level has risen with each box of Winchester white. My state is not the most CCW friendly in the world (understatement) and I would have a difficult time justifying the use of a weapon to support my day job (the current de facto requirement of the AG,) as a result I do not carry outside of the house, but I may try and go down that challenging road to getting a permit soon.

    I recognize the downside of my more complex pistol, but for me, it fit all of my requirements. The Springfield XD came very close, and may actually some day find a place in my safe as well, especially now that my overall comfort level with pistols has increased dramatically over the past two years. Lets be honest, it is not like our culture in general has done a great job historically of demystifying guns, in fact they are quite often demonized, and as a result, combined with the fact that these are tools designed to kill - which on the surface can be a very scary thing, doesn't easily translate to immediate levels of comfort for people who are new to them. But if one is willing to spend a lot of time understanding the mechanics of the weapon, reading, re-reading, and re-reading the NRA gun safety rules, and putting lots of rounds into pieces of paper and associating a training regime, this comfort level rises.

    Thanks again for the discussion.
     
  7. 3fgburner

    3fgburner Loaded Pockets

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    I'll pitch in, although I'm probably repeating what a bunch of others have already said. Most of my carry guns are DA/SA. I carry with one up the spout, and hammer decocked. If I'm carrying the 1911, it's cocked-and-locked. As one poster elsewhere said, and I'm shamelessly stealing: "The gun's eee-ville want-to-go-off juju is no match for the power of my not pulling the trigger."

    Now, I did have an interesting learning moment a while back, when I tried IDPA. For years, I'd been carrying stuff that didn't make the (9x19 minimum) power floor. Having acquired a 1911, I had something with which to shoot a match. I waffled and loafed around so much that I'd acquired more guns, by the time I finally shot a match. Before the match, I realized that I wasn't actually comfortable enough with cocked-and-locked, to use that in preference to DA/SA. However, by that time I'd also acquired a Walther P1, aka alloy-frame P38. So, I shot my first (and so far only, need to join up) IDPA match with WWII German tech.

    Incidentally - the so-called "Israeli" (draw-rack-bang) technique is used there because it's the least common denominator for semiauto draw-and-shoot drills.

    [Caveat: source for the following is "vaguely remember reading this on the net". Use salt as appropriate.]
    IDF veterans who live in dangerous areas (read, "most of Israel") can get a gun permit, and get a pistol issued to them by the police. The thing is, you don't know WHAT you'll be issued. It's whatever is sitting on the top of the heap of found / captured / confiscated guns. Draw-rack-bang eliminates having to learn all the quirks of a given gun, before you have to use it.
     
  8. camdz

    camdz Loaded Pockets

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    There have been a few times I kept one out of the chamber in my P3AT while carrying with the belt clip only. I would never consider it with any pistol that is holstered though.
     
  9. MKram

    MKram Loaded Pockets

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    But, no military member _ever_ gives Murphy the opportunity for a second chance. I think the reason why our armed forces (and I include domestic LEO's) train so hard is to minimize the opportunity for random chance to make them dead. Everything from running 5 miles to the range with gear to shoot a long range string followed by a sprint to the CQB facility, and a joint training session with the Close Air Support folks before going to the sandbox, was designed to keep us whole and make the other guy holey.
     
  10. KenpoTex

    KenpoTex Loaded Pockets

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    Carrying with an empty chamber is dumb for the reasons that many people in this thread have already mentioned...
     
  11. JPTP

    JPTP Empty Pockets

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    I'm required to carry a round in the chamber. So why would I stop to unload the chamber when I punch out? I have been carrying Glocks for years they don't go boom unless the trigger is pulled. If your so worried about carrying a Glock with the chamber loaded get another firearm. If your worried about waking up and going for a loaded weapon, put it in a safe.
     
  12. fuzzypockets

    fuzzypockets Empty Pockets

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    Hello

    So for those of you who carry with no round in the chamber, do you also carry a dull knife, to me is is the same thing , i see know difference. Just a question.


    FP
     
  13. Helstar

    Helstar Loaded Pockets

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    I keep one chamber open on my revolver. I always have, I started with a Ruger Single Six and it was a good idea with that gun to do so .
     
  14. 3fgburner

    3fgburner Loaded Pockets

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    I'm assuming that you keep the chamber directly under the hammer empty. In a double-action revolver, that's equivalent to having a full chamber in a Glock, since what comes up when you pull the trigger is the NEXT chamber.

    DA Revolver equivalent to an empty auto chamber, is having the NEXT chamber empty, not the one under the hammer.

    In a revolver with a transfer bar safety mechanism, empty chamber under the hammer is simply equivalent to having one less round in the auto's magazine.
     
  15. SnWnMe

    SnWnMe Loaded Pockets

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    Oh heck may as well chime in. An empty gun requires two hands to get into action. Those hands may not both be available when the gun is needed to assist the carrier with a social problem.

    If carrying a loaded gun makes one uncomfortable then one should get more familiar with the gun or pick another gun or weapon to carry. Confidence in the weapon is a big plus to any user should the need to employ it arises.  I use 1911s for run and gun games and am proficient with that pattern. But mine all have ambi safeties and I discovered that during daily carry, the outboard thumpiece snags and flips the safety off  :-X. So when I carry, I have a S&W 442 Airweight because that, to me, has a good balance of being ready and while meeting my own safety comfort zone. Like the 1911 I am also proficient with DA revolvers and practice and train with wheelies at least once a month.
     
  16. SnWnMe

    SnWnMe Loaded Pockets

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    Also, I bleeb that this keeping one chamber empty for wheelies only makes sense for older wheelies esp Colt SAAs, early Ruger SAs and WW2 and older S&Ws (no hammer block). Modern wheelies like all post WW2 S&Ws, modern Ruger SAs and modern Tauri and non SAA Colts all have some sort of transfer bar/ hammer block device built in to prevent dischrge if the gun was dropped on its hammer.
     
  17. watchman

    watchman Empty Pockets

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    Cocked an locked the only way to fly. If a pistol is not fully loaded you have a mighty poor club.
    Been carrying a Colt .45 for over 30 years. Never had a A.D.C
     
  18. Pantex

    Pantex Empty Pockets

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    Depends on my concealed carry weapon. My Glock 31 is a utility gun that is usually stuffed into my waistband strong side without a holster so yes it is chamber empty with a full mag and a spare mag in my ruler pouch on my carpenter jeans. For My SIG's and 1911A1's I carry only with a holster with one down the pipe. The dehorned glock is my combat tupperware per se......
     
  19. Helstar

    Helstar Loaded Pockets

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    My single six does not have the safety bar. So yes I would leave the chamber under the hammer unloaded. I still do that today on most of my revolvers with a hammer. Even with a safety bar I still feel better doing it.
    My single six makes a pretty good club I have hit a few people with it LOL

    If we ever get concealed carry where I live I will carry a Beretta PX4 in 9mm. Right now we are only allow to do unloaded carry and the gun has to be in zipper pouch at minimum. But, once we slam any ammo into it, we become felons.
     
  20. archer

    archer Loaded Pockets

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    its not about giving up anything to Murphy, but anybody who has experienced extensive combat and
    will be honest enough will tell you that there are just too many variables and at times a lot of confusion.
    And in spite of the most intensive and advanced, modern training Murphy will have his say!
    Especially when fighting guerrilla style warfare, unknowingly walking into a sniper kill zone, opening an explosive rigged door, unknowingly being approached by a boobie trapped woman, roadside bombs.
    All of these scenarios became old news to some of us in Lebanon a quarter of a century ago.
    Stay safe and stay sane.