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Am I crazy? (defending pets)

Discussion in 'Handguns' started by moostapha, Aug 19, 2015.

  1. jmbriggs

    jmbriggs Loaded Pockets

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    Yes I am willing to disarm any time I visit friends and family. In fact when I visit most of my family my weapons are either left at home or in the lock box in my truck. I know a lot of people that are anti-gun or anti-carry and I visit them often.
     
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  2. Dark

    Dark Loaded Pockets

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    Not at all. They are family.
     
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  3. moostapha

    moostapha Loaded Pockets

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    I don't unless they ask me too, in compliance with Georgia law. But, I've also opened at least one mind to a degree with the whole "you've never seen me unarmed" thing to a relatively new friend.
     
  4. jag-engr
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    jag-engr Semper Bufo!
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    No - you feel that they are family. I could feel that the tree in my backyard is family, but that doesn't make that imagined relationship genetically, socially, morally, ethically, or legally valid.


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  5. Dark

    Dark Loaded Pockets

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    Nope, they are family.
     
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  6. Monocrom

    Monocrom Loaded Pockets

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    Sorry, but be has a valid point. My little niece used to know me as her uncle. My nephew too. I used to buy gifts for them. She was easier since I kept buying more and more adorable stuffed animals for her. I'm not blood-related to them. My best friend of going on 25 years, has a brother whom I thought I was good friends with too. Got invited over constantly to their home. To the point I could stop by unannounced and they'd genuinely be happy to see me.

    When they got divorced, I was given a very real reminder that I wasn't family. (Yes, I'm closer to my best friend than he is to his own brother. And was even the best man at his wedding instead of his brother who fathered those two children when he married his own wife. It was a co-Best Man sorta thing. But even the brother knew the deal. When it was time for the Best Man to give the speech at the wedding, the brother told me to get up there. Yeah, he knew.)

    Divorce happened, they sold the house. Neither one called to say where they and the children were. Haven't heard from him or his ex-wife in a handful of years. Still have two stuffed animals in the trunk of my car that I never did get to give them. 10 years from now, a teenaged girl with blonde hair and adorable green eyes who looks like Kevin, might walk by me.... And I won't have a clue if she's the little girl who used to know me as "uncle."

    A person or a pet can be LIKE family. You can consider them as such. But the legal definition, for the purposes of this discussion, are very clear.
     
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  7. moostapha

    moostapha Loaded Pockets

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    It also said very clearly in post 1 of this thread that I did not want to discuss the legal side of the question.
     
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  8. Monocrom

    Monocrom Loaded Pockets

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    Alright we won't discuss it. But it's unrealistic to ignore it completely.
     
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  9. LongarmoftheLaw

    LongarmoftheLaw Loaded Pockets

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    I am probably one of the biggest dog lovers you will ever meet in your life. I adore dogs of virtually every kind, and I always have. Furthermore, almost all dogs seem to love me instantly and naturally gravitate to me. Calling me a dog lover is an understatement.

    Having said that, the scenario you describe is totally unjustified, both morally and legally. People are not dogs. The stranger's right to defend his person and life totally trumps your right to defend property. There is no direct equivalent between a burglar stealing your TV and a non-criminal stranger "defending" themselves from your dog - the TV poses no threat to the burglar and he has zero legal justification for taking it, whereas the non-criminal stranger ostensibly has a real belief that his person is in imminent danger of death or grievous bodily harm, making his action (presumably, all things being equal) morally acceptable.

    As a pet owner, I consider my dog's safety my responsibility. If there's any question about a person coming into my home and how they might react to her, I put the dog in the back yard and close the door.
     
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  10. Lou_G

    Lou_G Banned

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    I have not been able to come up with a good response to this, so I'll just have to give a best effort. First, pets are family to many people, whether you agree or not. They certainly are to me. I understand that it is not the legal definition, but I do not care about the social, ethical or moral opinions.

    Would I defend my pet with deadly force? Absolutely, but it depends on the circumstances. I can't allow my pet to have the chance to run up on someone that has a legitimate reason to come onto the property. Almost any instance where I would shoot someone that shot my dog, they would be in a place where I would have shot them if I had no dog. Ultimately, it is my responsibility to keep my dog from being in a bad situation.
     
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  11. Dark

    Dark Loaded Pockets

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    First off, I want to say how sorry I am that you went through that :(. I've experienced something similar but on a much smaller level.

    I was only replying to the OP question about "being crazy" with no regard for what anyone else was discussing. I get pets aren't LITERALLY or LEGALLY family, so it's a subjective assignment of value, much like 90% of the rest of human conventions we live by.

    Legally, in the state I reside, pets are classified as property. Theft/destruction of property can be defended against with deadly force. Now before additional hair-splitting ensues, I'll note that I'd treat the assault of a prized basketball quite a bit differently than the attempted murder of a family pet.
     
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  12. Grimley

    Grimley Loaded Pockets

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    I am lucky guns are totally illegal and apart from farmers shotguns pretty much unheard of, but if anyone ever did anything that I would deem excessive towards my dog I would lose it, shes so timid and gentle that if they said they hurt her in "defense" I would give them a whole other reason to be defensive!
     
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  13. Bowman1911

    Bowman1911 EDC Mechanic

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    moostapha buy a fence bro. Keep it locked. Meet any & all visitors at the gate. I have 3 dogs. Love 'em more than the children we would've had, but weren't blessed with. I value their lives more than I do most people I meet on a daily basis. My Mutt, not my full blooded pointers, shattered his left front elbow a couple weeks ago, Surgery ran us $4200. I probably should've put him down, but I feel he's owed a good life (long story). I have a 5' cyclone fence around the perimeter of my property. It stays locked, unless we're mowing or weed eating outside/around it. I have my packages delivered to a drop box just outside the fence, and mail is delivered to my box ~10 outside it. The fence isn't there to keep my dogs in, I have an underground dog fence for that. It's a well defined perimeter as in accordance with the law. Inside that fence, it's my domain.
     
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  14. moostapha

    moostapha Loaded Pockets

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    I have a fenced in back yard, and, honestly, the dogs don't even go out into that without supervision.

    It's just people coming to the front door that concern me. Though they're getting better about sitting and waiting to meet people.
     
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  15. Tropicheat

    Tropicheat Loaded Pockets

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    Legally speaking of the person has a reasonable fear for their safety (I.e. A charging dog) they are in the right to draw on your dog. If you shoot at them you will loose in court 100% of the time. The visitor can say he thought he was being attacked, all you can say is that YOU know YOUR dog was friendly and you shot the visitor who believed he was being attacked.
    Train your dog or ensure he doesn't charge people. I'm a dog guy I own a large pit bull he is super friendly towards people and will run up to strangers knowing this I don't let him out off the leash and when someone knocks on the door I put him in a room before I answer it.


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  16. Tropicheat

    Tropicheat Loaded Pockets

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    I wouldn't call being denied the right to protect your self with firearms lucky


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  17. Tropicheat

    Tropicheat Loaded Pockets

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    I agree, while if someone shot my dog I would be really upset, everyone needs to realize it's the owners responsibility to protect the dog from situations like that. It's not some guy on the streets responsibility to wait until your dog bites them to find out if they are in danger. If a large dog is charging me and I don't see the owner yelling that he's friendly or I can't tell right away it is I'm shooting and that's perfectly legal under self defense law.


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  18. LostLenny19

    LostLenny19 Empty Pockets

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    So someone visits another person and shoots their dog comin to say hello.. this does not seem like a person who should realistically have a firearm. Someone who responds to surprise and unknown with deadly force.. logically it would only be a matter of time until something like this happened.. isn't there some sort of responsibility on said person to be somewhat adept at realizing a threat? For instance.. dog comes running, he is not a possible threat if u step behind the door u just came thru, instead of using a gun. Seems like some ppl carry weapons just in case and try to avoid use, and some people carry em and hope they get a slight "legal" chance to shoot.
     
  19. LostLenny19

    LostLenny19 Empty Pockets

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    Also.. dont shoot em back.. make them drop their gun and then beat the tar out of them. Aggravated assault is just a tad better than the alternative and besides.. ur dog just got shot, you're gonna need to hit something right? Many times
     
  20. Shike

    Shike Loaded Pockets

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    I think most people can recognize an aggressive dog.
     
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