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Alternative Home Defense

Discussion in 'Personal Security Devices & Self-Defense' started by suburbDad, Feb 9, 2014.

  1. Mudinyeri

    Mudinyeri Loaded Pockets

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    OP, how skilled are you at close quarters combat?

    When you open up to swing that ice pick, I may just poke you with a quick jab to the larynx effectively cutting off your oxygen supply - either permanently or long enough for you to pass out. Baseball bat - same thing. I can easily step inside the swing, making it all but useless, and maybe grab your arm and break it at the elbow while I'm in there. Unless you train with these items - as weapons - a somewhat skilled close quarters combatant will take them away from you or disable you while you're trying to use them.

    Now, the average crack head may not be able to do that, but they also wont feel pain like a "normal" person if they're drugged up. You'll have to focus on disabling them not just hurting them.

    Cliff's Notes: Most people aren't skilled enough to use "melee" weapons in close quarters combat.
     
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  2. jackknife

    jackknife Loaded Pockets

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    I've got a couple that I love. For the past few years I've been playing with a Rossi coach gun in 12 gauge with real external hammers. Cost about 300 and some change, but it's soooo simple to work with, I love it for the better half.

    Then there's the old cheepie from my childhood, the Harrington Richardson single barrel break opens. They are a simple single shot shot gun, with a very long history of being a working gun amount the rural folks. Comes in a selection from 12 to 28 gauge and .410. I love these as bad weather hunting guns, or from a position at the top of the stairs. Don't disgaurd the old single barrels, they mostly have very good ejectors that as you break open the action, the empty shell get thrown clear very fast. That leaves you to reload that spare shell you've had between your middle and ring fingers in a blink if you've practiced. Even an old single can work. About a year ago, we had a break in while the family was home. A nutcase crack was kicking in the door, and the father had an old 20 gauge single. He warned the guy to go away. When the door gave out, and the druggie came in, he got a goose load in the chest. My son is a country police officer, and his report was that the large bird shot at close range blew what looked like a bloody rat hole through the guy. The druggie was dead when what was left of him hit the floor. The country DA didn't even do a prelim investigation. Middle aged guy, has door kicked in, uses shotgun, case closed on a long repeat offender. End of file.

    Look and if necessary, haunt gun brokers.com, until you find a used but good condition Savage 311. Good double gun, internal hammers. Another good one is the Stogers coach gun. LIke the Rossi, they are popular amount the cowboy action shooters at my gun club.

    A shot gun is the nuclear weapon of hand held firearms. They can talk all they want about the .40's and .45's, but a shotgun at close range is the king of defense.
     
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  3. Sachmo

    Sachmo EDC Junkie!!!

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    Most people probably aren't skilled enough to defend being hit with any kind of "melee" weapon. As cracked out as that "junkie" may be, they may find themselves being attacked by a homeowner "cracked out" on some serious adrenaline.
     
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  4. keith1234
    • In Omnia Paratus

    keith1234 Loaded Pockets

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    Mudinyeri I completely agree with that a weapon can be taken from you. I once did it when my cousin swung a baseball bat at me, I caught it bear handed and took it off him. My hand wasn't so good for about a week but it scared him good. When I caught the bat I flexed my arm not keeping it stiff so it absorbed the blow like a shock absorber but enough to stop him and relieve him of his weapon. Mind you he was about 10 and I was roughly 12 but it was a wooden bat and he swung full force to injure. My cousin is a bit messed up in the head which is the explanation for this incident.
     
  5. onebadwagon

    onebadwagon Loaded Pockets

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    One should always approach violence with the mindset that all variables will be in the oppositions favor and train accordingly.
     
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  6. toork

    toork Loaded Pockets

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    This!

    I have a Vepr 12 with 10 rounds of 2 & 3/4" buckshot with a Walther P99 as backup.

    You can just call the police. They'll be able to draw with chalk & take samples when they get there!

    Liberals crack me up.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  7. xdglocker

    xdglocker Loaded Pockets

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    Perfect... +1

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
     
  8. Sachmo

    Sachmo EDC Junkie!!!

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    Sure, makes sense. But it just seems at the end of the day, not very many people are trained in any kind of combat and that goes for intruders as well. I think what everyone needs to keep in mind is that not everyone wants to keep a gun in there house, and there is nothing wrong with that; to each his own. So no his wife doesn't need to "get over it". It's her house too and she doesn't want a gun around, so being a good partner her husband here is looking for an alternative, why don't we focus on helping him with that instead of telling him how to run his household.

    I don't keep my guns loaded and at the ready (shame on me, I know) but I have a heavy maglite to grab and swing, it works for me.
     
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  9. toork

    toork Loaded Pockets

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    Agreed. And a mag light is a reasonable alternative! Hammers & ice picks on the other hand... IMO are not! Most violent crimes/assaults are committed with hammers &/or piercing instruments. My thinking is it will be harder to justify using a hammer or ice pick in court! Those instruments don't have "self defense written all over them. Don get me wrong! It's better to be alive and in court than dead! That's why I have my Vepr. At least I'll be the only one testifying!







    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  10. Mudinyeri

    Mudinyeri Loaded Pockets

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    Not everyone wants to keep firearms in their home. I get it. Many people have an unreasonable fear of firearms and firmly believe that "it" will never happen to them. Many people are delusional.

    While violent crime in the U.S. is on the decline as a whole, it is spreading, geographically, to the suburbs.

    Being a good partner sometimes means confronting your partner with the difficult truth and showing him or her the fate of those who refuse to take responsibility for their own defense.

    If you want an alternative to a firearm for self defense, you better be VERY comfortable with hand-to-hand combat. You better like getting hit and hurt. You better be ready to gouge out the attacker's eyes, crush their larynx and break their bones. Or, you better have some take-down skills and have a way to secure the perp once they're down. Personally, I'd prefer to keep as much distance between myself and any random meth heads as possible ... and I love to fight. Anyone here ever hit someone cranked up on meth (or any other drug) and watch when the blow doesn't even register in their brain? I suspect not. I have a number of municipal, county, state and federal LEO friends and I've listened to their stories of hitting druggies with a mag light or baton time after time and having the guy (or gal) just keep coming. Many of today's "favorite" drugs disable or retard the brain's pain center.

    "I have a heavy maglight to grab and swing, it works for me."

    Does it? Have you actually disabled a meth head with it? Even without drugs, I can take quite a few shots from a maglight and keep coming. I had a guy try it once. He got me in the ribs which hurt quite a bit but I still dropped him to the ground. I've also been hit with bricks, rocks, dirt clods, 2X4's and stabbed/cut. None of those things stopped me. And, I'm not some huge brute of a guy. I'm 5' 10", 160 lbs.

    Unless you're practiced at disabling people - and continue to practice those skills on a daily basis - you need an equalizer that gives you distance. An ice pick won't do that. A baseball bat won't do that. A knife won't do that. A taser (that fires electrodes), pepper spray or a firearm can do that. Unfortunately, with enough drugs in a person's system, they may keep coming after being hit with any of those three.

    Ultimately, I can't force anyone to take their own defense, or the defense of their family, seriously. All I can do is point out what happens in the real world.
     
  11. clandr1

    clandr1 Loaded Pockets

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    Mudinyeri, wish I could like that 37 times. Excellent post.
     
  12. xdglocker

    xdglocker Loaded Pockets

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    Amen

    Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
     
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  13. jackknife

    jackknife Loaded Pockets

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    They need to merge these two threads. The one in general about "non lethal defense" and this.

    In the other tread I used the example of Sean Taylor as what happens when home invaders have a gun and you don''t. Sean Taylor was 24 years old, an NFL football player for the Washington Rerdskins. He was good. He was big, strong, and fasty as in agile. Yet, when a couple of punks broke into his home, and he made an attempt to defend himself with a machete, he was shot down, and died from blood loss.

    How many of you home defenders think you are as big, and tough as Sean Taylor? Any Buce lee would be's here?

    The simple fact is, when some lowlife breaks into your hime at 3am and you need to do something about it, you need a gun right now. Your self delusional skill with whatever ball bat, hammer, samurai sword, all is zilch if the other guy has a gun. Game over. You'll end up dead, your wife will end up dead after they've had their fun with her, and maybe your kids too. There isn't any reason in the world, every home should not have a simple break open shotgun, and the home owner knowing how to use it. Even a old single barrel Harrington Richardson will work. That's at least one swarm of buckshot you can send down the hallway.

    So the wife doesn't like guns. She needs to get over it, because of real life. This ain't pee-wee's play house or Mr. Rogers neighborhood. It's the real world where there are people who would kill you and your whole family, then sit down and make a sandwich in your kitchen before they leave. The reason the wife needs to get over it is, a man takes care of his family. That's what a man does. It ain't the wife's place, it's the man's. So he needs to just go do what needs to be done to seriously protect his family. Anything else is just playing around to make things feel good. When it's dark, and something goes bang in the night, maybe the back door being kicked in, nothing is going to as good as 12 gauge with buckshot on deck. But the man has to step up to the plate, and take the responsibility into his hands and safe guard his family. Get a shotgun. Tell the wife to get help for her phobia.

    This may b a bit blunt, but life is too short to sugar coat everything.
     
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  14. Sachmo

    Sachmo EDC Junkie!!!

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    I wouldn't say I'm delusional, I'm aware that the dogs and the deadbolt are far more effective than my maglite.
    I wonder though what the percentage of accidental shootings of a family member is compared to the percentage of perps shot by homeowners while defending their family. Oh wait I know that percentage, it seems after doing some research gun owners(including myself) are 3 times more likely to have an accidental shooting in the home vs. a justifiable shooting of an intruder.
    We can go back and forth as much as you'd like , but it's boring and it really isn't helping someone figure out an ALTERNATE home defense is it. Heck tell him to get a dog, put up a 50 foot wall or dig a mote but hop off the get a gun or become a super ninja high horse.
    I really do like the mote idea, it's probably good for repelling solicitors too.
     
  15. Mudinyeri

    Mudinyeri Loaded Pockets

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    To get back to the original question (which I've been addressing all along) ... there really is no better alternative than a gun and the training to go with it.

    I'm not sure which study you're quoting when you suggest that an accidental shooting is three times more likely than shooting a home invader. The often-quoted Kellerman study was done in 1998. Here is a summary of the results:

    As you can see, assaults/homicides far outweigh all of the other categories (438 of 626 shootings). You can't use a firearm to defend yourself if the perp has one (in your home) and you don't. You can also see that the study was not limited to homes where the owners legally possessed firearms nor was the study limited to incidents inside the homes. Obviously, there are quite a few flaws with the study to being with. Those flaws are often exacerbated by mis-quoting/misrepresenting the statistics.
     
  16. Sachmo

    Sachmo EDC Junkie!!!

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    Too many bricks to the head I guess
     
  17. Sachmo

    Sachmo EDC Junkie!!!

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    You did see the part of your own quote where unintentional shootings topped justified shootings 4 to 1 right?
    Never mind you're right, guns are the answer for everything. The square root of 34865 = gun.
     
  18. Kilted1

    Kilted1 Loaded Pockets

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    Source please. Last numbers I saw (FBI crime stats) showed that accidental shootings were near historic lows. Not calling :censored: on this, just want to read whatever you're reading and know where it comes from.

    This is all off topic though. Hardly anyone will dispute that the number one thing to have in a gunfight, is a gun. This just isn't possible for everyone everywhere. So lets get back to discussing other possibilities, shall we? There's lots of other threads on the topic of firearms.
     
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  19. suburbDad

    suburbDad Loaded Pockets

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    I have trained MMA in the past. Problem is I just had back surgery so I can't be as effective with my hands and feet only.
     
  20. 0dBm

    0dBm Loaded Pockets

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    I dispute this!
     
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