1. Are you a current member with account or password issues?

    Please visit following page for more information

    Dismiss Notice

AI may be searching you for guns the next time you go out in public

Discussion in 'General EDC Discussion' started by post tenebras, May 20, 2022.

  1. post tenebras

    post tenebras Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2012
    Messages:
    102
    Likes Received:
    223
    Big Brother is rolling out a new AI security screening tool...

    ===

    AI may be searching you for guns the next time you go out in public

    When Peter George saw news of the racially motivated mass-shooting at the Tops supermarket in Buffalo last weekend, he had a thought he’s often had after such tragedies.

    “Could our system have stopped it?” he said. “I don’t know. But I think we could democratize security so that someone planning on hurting people can’t easily go into an unsuspecting place.”

    George is chief executive of Evolv Technology, an AI-based system meant to flag weapons, “democratizing security” so that weapons can be kept out of public places without elaborate checkpoints. As U.S. gun violence like the kind seen in Buffalo increases — firearms sales reached record heights in 2020 and 2021 while the Gun Violence Archive reports 198 mass shootings since January — Evolv has become increasingly popular, used at schools, stadiums, stores and other gathering spots.

    To its supporters, the system is a more effective and less obtrusive alternative to the age-old metal detector, making events both safer and more pleasant to attend. To its critics, however, Evolv’s effectiveness has hardly been proved. And it opens up a Pandora’s box of ethical issues in which convenience is paid for with RoboCop surveillance.

    “The idea of a kinder, gentler metal detector is a nice solution in theory to these terrible shootings,” said Jay Stanley, senior policy analyst for the American Civil Liberties Union’s project on speech, privacy, and technology. “But do we really want to create more ways for security to invade our privacy? Do we want to turn every shopping mall or Little League game into an airport?”

    Evolv machines use “active sensing” — a light-emission technique that also underpins radar and lidar — to create images. Then it applies AI to examine them. Data scientists at the Waltham, Mass., company have created “signatures” (basically, visual blueprints) and trained the AI to compare them to the scanner images.

    Executives say the result is a smart system that can “spot” a weapon without anyone needing to stop and empty their pockets in a beeping machine. When the system identifies a suspicious item from a group of people flowing through, it draws an orange box around it on a live video feed of the person entering. It’s only then that a security guard, watching on a nearby tablet, will approach for more screening.

    Dan Donovan, a veteran security consultant who rents Evolv’s systems out to clients for events, says that by allowing guards to focus on fewer threats, it avoids the fatigue metal-detector operators can feel. Like other consultants, he notes no system probably would have stopped the Buffalo shooter, who began firing in the parking lot.

    Consumers can expect to see Evolv a lot more. Sports franchises like the Tennessee Titans and Carolina Panthers now use it; so do the New York Mets and Columbus Crew. The Super Bowl at SoFi Stadium in February deployed for an outside perimeter. In New York City, public arts institutions such as the Lincoln Center are trying it. So is a municipal hospital. (NYC Mayor Eric Adams has touted it as a potential subway security measure, but tight spaces and underground signal interference make that less plausible.)

    North Carolina’s Charlotte-Mecklenburg school system, with 150,000 students, has also licensed Evolv. Theme parks are excited, too — all 27 Six Flags parks across the country now use it. Evolv has now conducted 250 million scans to date, it says., up from 100 million in September.

    George believes accuracy and lack of friction make Evolv compelling. “No one wants a prison or an airport everywhere they go, which is what you have with a dumb analogue metal detector,” he said. “And the cost of doing nothing is going up by the day.”

    The company, which went public last year, has raised at least $400 million, with diverse figures including Jeb Bush, Bill Gates, Peyton Manning and Andre Agassi investing. (The space is growing, with a system from Italian rival CEIA also gaining popularity.) Relying primarily on the four-year subscriptions it sells, Evolv more than doubled its revenue in the first quarter to $8.7 million compared to 2021, though also more than doubled its losses, to $18.2 million.

    Retails stores are an appealing use case, George said, because people want to feel safe shopping but don’t want to be stopped and checked every time they walk in to buy some groceries. (About 60 people can be scanned every minute, Evolv says.) George said that when the system was installed at an Atlanta-area mall, Lenox Square, in January, it caught 57 guns in the first four hours.

    Overall, George said, at least 15,000 guns were flagged by Evolv in the first quarter of 2022. (These numbers are not publicly vetted.)

    But IPVM, a security-industry trade publication, concluded after a review that Evolv has “fundamental technological limitations in differentiating benign objects from actual weapons.” One issue, IPVM said, citing its examination of the company, is that some metallic objects confuse the AI, including particularly the ruggedly designed Google Chromebook.

    IPVM says Evolv has not provided sufficient data. The publication also says the company will not engage with it due to its inquiries; it says the firm has even asked it to stop reporting on Evolv in the name of public safety.

    In a statement to The Washington Post regarding the conflict, Evolv said: “We believe that publishing a blueprint of any security screening technology is irresponsible and makes the public less safe by providing unnecessary insights to those who may try to use the information to cause harm.”

    Alan Cowen, a former Google scientist and AI expert, says he’d also worry about “adversarial examples,” in which bad actors learn how to circumvent the AI — say, by putting tape around a gun handle — as well as a delay in figuring this out because Evolv won’t flag it.

    Some techno-ethicists say accuracy is only one fear.

    “If it can reduce false positives while still catching the real positives, that seems like a benefit,” said Jamais Cascio, the author and founder of Open the Future, an organization examining technology’s consequences. “My concern is what happens when it moves beyond looking for weapons at a concert — when someone decides to add all kinds of inputs on the person being scanned, or if we enter a protest and a government agency can now use the system to track and log us. We know what a metal detector can and can’t tell us. We have no idea how this can be used.”

    George says that no data is applied to a scanning subject and no information captured or catalogued. As for accuracy, he acknowledges the Chromebook has been an issue but says the algorithm is being improved. He suggests students might simply come to realize they need to hold them up on their way in to school, a small price to pay. “Why shouldn’t there be a system where kids can learn safely and also enter without breaking stride?” he asked.

    Whether that will be possible in large districts like Charlotte-Mecklenberg, though, remains to be seen. Requests for comment from the police department overseeing the district’s security were not returned.

    Several Evolv clients The Post spoke to say they’re happy with the system.

    “We went from 30 metal-detector lines to four lanes, and we’re not stopping people for every cellphone or house key,” said Jason Freeman, Six Flags’ vice president of security, safety, health and environmental. He said overall stops have gone from 32 percent to 15 percent, with the great majority still not considered threats. The idea is not just to catch more weapons; it’s to waste less time on everything else.

    Mark Heiser, venue director for the Denver Performing Arts Complex, says the system is light years ahead of the metal detector. “We’d never go back,” he said.

    Heiser cited fewer alarms for items like pen knives — “which is good, because it allows us to focus on [the more destructive weapons].” And, he noted, a lot of audience members feel freer walking in.

    But Stanley of the ACLU remains unconvinced.

    “Devices being more subtle is a good thing. But they can also be more insidious or even just annoying,” he said. “You’re going to have a lot of people shocked an umbrella tucked inside a coat pocket is suddenly leading to an encounter with a security guard.”

    ===

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/ai-may-be-searching-you-for-guns-the-next-time-you-go-out-in-public/ar-AAXvwhE
     
  2. ox71

    ox71 Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2013
    Messages:
    300
    Likes Received:
    889
    I'm not reading all that.
    What are they using to scan people now?
    Radar and lidar, is there a safety concern connected to that?

    .
     
  3. plumberroy

    plumberroy Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2012
    Messages:
    618
    Likes Received:
    1,315
    Get your nose out of a phone and pay attention to your surroundings and guns are not that hard to spot. I was at another church a couple weeks ago (I'm on our churches security team) I was discussing facilities and security team stuff with their staff. I pointed out 5 of their 6 people armed I hadn't seen the sixth. It's called situational awareness and being responsible for yourself and your family
     
  4. neo71665

    neo71665 Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2016
    Messages:
    418
    Likes Received:
    361
    I'm supposed to be ok with the invasion of my privacy because morons can't pay attention to their surroundings?
     
    garza likes this.
  5. jbj

    jbj Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2012
    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    62
    If I’m reading this correctly, this is supposed to replace metal detectors at venues, not random on the street scanning.

    As far as privacy, by entering a venue, you agree to give up some of your privacy as a condition of entrance.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    post tenebras and kikaida like this.
  6. neo71665

    neo71665 Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2016
    Messages:
    418
    Likes Received:
    361
    Um no I don't agree to being put in a database as a condition on my entering. Then again I generally do not go to places that do not support my rights.
     
  7. kikaida

    kikaida Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2013
    Messages:
    904
    Likes Received:
    1,048
    So you've never been to a courthouse where they have people going through a metal detector, you've never been at a professional or amateur sports event where they don't want you carrying weapons, or a hospital where they don't allow weapons, or an amusement park, etc, etc. I guess you've never flown on an airline either.
     
  8. brokenoldman

    brokenoldman Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2013
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    85
    I've lived 48 years not owning a gun. Seems weird to fight about having one when in my opinion it's not needed.

    Sent from my Armor X8 using Tapatalk
     
    post tenebras and StuntZombie like this.
  9. plumberroy

    plumberroy Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2012
    Messages:
    618
    Likes Received:
    1,315
    I grew up in the hills of Appalachia. We hunted raised or grew 60% of everything we ate for a family of six. Guns are part of my heritage. There are a lot of people in America that are like me. I don't know where you are from , but what the media doesn't tell you is most mass shootings happen in states with strict gun control laws and if not a strict gun control laws in gun free zones . You walk into a large grocery store here in Ohio and 4-6% of the people in there are armed

    As far as going through metal detectors some entrances at work have them but since I am maintenance I get waived through .
     
    post tenebras, neo71665 and garza like this.
  10. brokenoldman

    brokenoldman Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2013
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    85
    I didn't want to come off as a donut hole. Sorry. I live in Canada and we are not aloud to carry. You see police with them. That's it.

    Even a knife here is a big thing if it's not for work.

    Sent from my Armor X8 using Tapatalk
     
  11. plumberroy

    plumberroy Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2012
    Messages:
    618
    Likes Received:
    1,315
    4-6% people carry in the Midwest as an example the last mass shooting on the new was the New York shooting . New York is very restrictive . Anyone wanting to do something like this knows that if there is anyone armed they will be in uniform and easy to spot . You walk in a Grocery store here in Ohio and start shooting there will likely be 4-6 people armed and you wouldn't know who or where.
     
    post tenebras and neo71665 like this.
  12. neo71665

    neo71665 Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2016
    Messages:
    418
    Likes Received:
    361
    Um Nope to everything but a hospital since I turned 21. Have no need to go to any of them either.
     
  13. plumberroy

    plumberroy Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2012
    Messages:
    618
    Likes Received:
    1,315
    I cut my last post short I just got off crutches and my right foot out of bandages so I can drive and Momma wanted Taco bell. If I'm not at work a gun is part of my dress . As far as knives I have a mini Ulu as a neck knife. a Swiss army knife in my pocket and a Becker BK-16 on my belt. My daily walk around is a neck knife, SAK Walker, lighter Glock 42 left side extra mag on the right. If I am going to be outside I will carry a Becker BK-16 or BK-10 besides keys wallet and phone. There are a few things you can have in Canada that I can't here without a bunch of red tape I know you can have shorter barrels on shotguns than we can I have seen pictures of Remington 870 with a 14 inch barrel that I would love to have
     
  14. brokenoldman

    brokenoldman Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2013
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    85
    Yes. You can own guns in Canada, but never carry. You would also have to have a licence, and keep the guns and ammo locked up seperately.

    Plus, the RCMP can come by and check your house when ever they want If you have registered guns for compliance with the law.


    Sent from my Armor X8 using Tapatalk
     
    post tenebras likes this.
  15. ghuns

    ghuns Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2013
    Messages:
    559
    Likes Received:
    1,439
    With all due respect to our friends in Canada, and even Australia, there is a very significant difference between those two former British Empire countries and the US. They asked politely and repeatedly for their freedom from the British for over a hundred years, we took it from them, with guns, in eight.

    That is the reason our founders enshrined the right to keep and bear arms in our Constitution. That is the reason American gun owners are far less apt to go along with restrictions considered normal in other places.
     
    dmattaponi and neo71665 like this.
  16. brokenoldman

    brokenoldman Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2013
    Messages:
    64
    Likes Received:
    85
    The monarchy has very little to do with how Canada is run these days. We have our own laws. The Queen and her family are just figure heads.
    I am 6th generation Canadian and no one in my family has ever carried a gun except for work.(police)
    It's just not needed


    Sent from my Armor X8 using Tapatalk
     
  17. dmattaponi

    dmattaponi Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    May 1, 2010
    Messages:
    1,433
    Likes Received:
    1,786
    That’s the “funny” thing about it…a gun isn’t “needed”, until it’s “needed”.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
    post tenebras likes this.