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A message to the Shills.

Discussion in 'General EDC Discussion' started by amacman, Apr 5, 2013.

  1. amacman
    • In Omnia Paratus

    amacman Loaded Pockets

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    Hello,

    If you don't know me, allow me to briefly introduce myself. I'm a member and a proud supporter here. I have a business degree in management and marketing, with some psychology thrown in for good measure. I have meet Jon briefly, and interacted with him here on the forum. I have no financial stake in the forum at all. In the 3 plus years I have been a member, I have been impressed by the sincerity, generosity, and camaraderie on constant display here. There are countless forums on the net, but none match the sense of community that exists here.

    Not clear on what a shill is? Read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill

    The below is an expression of my opinions and viewpoints, it has not been approved, requested, or even seen by anyone else prior to my posting. For all I know, Jon or a mod may choose to remove it them selves.

    Now, to the point. For those of you that are here to "shill" the forum or otherwise promote interest in yours or someone else's product, you should stop. Now. Even if you are an "independent product rep" you should stop.

    Here's a few reasons why:

    It's unethical. You are stealing from Jon, the forum owner. Your are unfairly diluting the quality of the product he is delivering to paid advertiser/sponsors. Do you want to promote your product on the forum? Talk to Jon, he is a fair person, and will be happy to negotiate a deal that benefits you both. If you can't work out a deal with Jon, then the next point is extremely relevant.

    You can still benefit from the forum without shilling. There are over 30,000 members here and the posts are easily searchable through Google and with other tools. You can passively obtain TONS of valuable marketing data without making a single post. Consider this as Jon's gift to you, and be thankful.

    And finally, you should realize that shilling is a double edged sword, and you are harming yourself. It becomes known to us which companies are guilty of shilling. When you are caught shilling, we are pushed away from your company and straight to your competitors. If we know how you treat one of our favorite places to hang out, why should we assume you treat your customers any better?

    If you are shilling this forum, you should realize that you are doing harm. You are harming this forum and yourself. The forum is a resource that you can nurture and benefit from while building customer loyalty. Instead, you are choosing to poison the crop that is feeding us all.
     
  2. amacman
    • In Omnia Paratus

    amacman Loaded Pockets

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    Reserved
     
  3. Mighty Max
    • In Omnia Paratus

    Mighty Max Loaded Pockets

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    Let those who have been caught be named here.
     
  4. Mumbojumboo
    • GITD Manix 2XL Owner

    Mumbojumboo EDC Junkie!!!!!

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    Shills don't care and they still endlessly sell here. Not a fan but a boycott won't work. Just call them out..
     
    AnthonySC, Kripto, Kombi and 3 others like this.
  5. amacman
    • In Omnia Paratus

    amacman Loaded Pockets

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    I understand the feelings, but using the "report" button is the best path. The mods have the skills and the data to back up their decisions. Besides, acting recklessly, without care for the consequences is their style, not ours.
     
  6. thaeffman

    thaeffman Loaded Pockets

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    I've been on EDC forums for a bit, I don't post much but I enjoy soaking up the useful information from the community here. I have noticed that this forum specifically has a problem with reps and independent members using accounts to sell their goods without paying a cent for the upkeep and maintenance of forum. Why not get them to pay for their presence on the forum. If you are a entity willing to conduct business/advertise/create awareness on EDC Forums pay a yearly fee, that way the companies and craftsman get to advertise and create discussion about their products and the forum has a revenue stream that it can use. It doesn't have to be something ludicrous and I'm sure if the companies can find enthusiastic forum members if they don't have time to field reps or monitor the forum all day.
     
  7. amacman
    • In Omnia Paratus

    amacman Loaded Pockets

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    That's a bit off topic. And its not necessarily a problem. There are some members that hold the badge of EDC craftsman. They pay a monthly fee for that privilege. The craftsman program is constantly evolving. Its difficult to balance some things. Lots of members like the ability to interact and buy from these small operations. However, it can be tricky to justify the small revenue from craftsman compared to the effort of maintaing the program.

    The point is, these small craftsman are operating openly, and Jon has the right to administer the craftsman program as he thinks best. It is the large manufactures that do direct harm by denying Jon of revenue, by stealing from the forum while refusing to sell Jon inventory for the store.
     
    stax likes this.
  8. thaeffman

    thaeffman Loaded Pockets

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    I am wholly unqualified to speak on running a business or a community forum so I wont speculate anymore on what should and should not be done. As a user I would like to see the presence of some of the larger companies and manufacturers in a way that would be mutually beneficial to Jon, the community and the manufacturers. You've raised up an Important issue and I hope that through this discussion a solution that satisfies all parties can be reached.
     
  9. kertap75

    kertap75 EDC Junkie!!!!!

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    There are companies that do with with Jon. Shills are the ones that for whatever reason don't. The op put it perfectly. On some level I understand that if I look close enough at any company I will find something unethical in every company. But I refuse to spend my money with companies that I catch lying to me. And that is exactly what shilling is.

    As for having big companies on the forum......I would rather not. The sacrifices that would have to be made aren't worth it. I would rather have honest user reviews.
     
  10. amacman
    • In Omnia Paratus

    amacman Loaded Pockets

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    I'm not holding my breath waiting for the guilty parties to speak up. The chance of any solution coming about as a result of this thread is lower than zero.

    This is just me, telling the shills what I think about them and their actions. Does it make any sense for a manufacturer that's running full page adds in every issue of the top firearms magazines to come here and abuse the forum? Do I expect them to stop? Not so much. But they could. There are companies that treat this forum the right way and we love them for it. Way to go TEC, Tom Bihn Bags, Spyderco, Hinderer, Mora.... (again I'm not anyone official, so if I missed you in that shout out, I'm sorry. Please feel free to speak up yourself)

    These are companies that either advertise on the forum, or sell to Jon for the store. Did you notice that they are not only great examples of the right way to do business, but are also manufacturers of some of the best gear out there?
     
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  11. CatherineM
    • In Omnia Paratus

    CatherineM Loaded Pockets

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    I believe in honesty and fair play. I also vote with my wallet. Shills don't play fair so they don't get any of my wallet.


    Sent by Owl Post
     
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  12. Fabregas485
    • In Omnia Paratus

    Fabregas485 Loaded Pockets

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    I was told not to say anything unless I had something nice to say.
     
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  13. SAKplumber
    • In Omnia Paratus

    SAKplumber EDC Junkie!!!!!

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    Well said.

    As for me, in the last 10 months I've spent almost $2000.00 through the Forum Store. I've only bought a couple of things elsewhere...my Tom Bihn Synapse, for example, was bought the minute I found out that a bag manufacturer was playing fairly with Jon and therefore the Members of the Forum. Anything else I buy is at the recommendation of Members of the Forum who have been around long enough to prove they are not shills.

    I immediately get turned off when someone I don't know starts telling me anything adamantly, good or bad, about any product.

    If I want it, I go to Members in good standing and ask them.

    For example, the DPx GEAR HEST 2.0. I really like the idea of the knife, and the function could save me from carrying a couple of different tools each day. I've have a couple of Members that I don't know give me information about them. I don't know them well enough. So I went to Mumbojumboo...him I trust. I'll wait until I'm comfortable that it can do what I need, or may never need but want, it to do.

    I don't like the idea that a shill will get on here and influence my thinking. I try hard not to let that happen.
     
  14. amacman
    • In Omnia Paratus

    amacman Loaded Pockets

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    These are the exact kind of response I was hoping the shills would see. Maybe they can slowly realize that their behavior could actually cost them sales. They assume they are getting a net positive increase, because thats the only thing capable of being measured. Its hard to measure lost sales, so they try to ignore they exist.
     
    Kripto, keith1234 and SAKplumber like this.
  15. keith1234
    • In Omnia Paratus

    keith1234 Loaded Pockets

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    If companies don't want to play fair businesswise with the Forum then we members all should take our business elsewhere like to their competition. I don't care how cheap and good an item is, if you lie to me I just buy something else from a different company.
     
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  16. Kripto

    Kripto Evil Sid

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    This is exactly why I won't buy Maxpedition. Long story, lets just say the owner isn't respectful of Jon or the Forum.
     
  17. Mighty Max
    • In Omnia Paratus

    Mighty Max Loaded Pockets

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    And I was just looking at some of their stuff. Nevermind them then.
     
  18. indigo_wolf

    indigo_wolf AKA Breezy

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    Spidey sense a-tinglin' ;)


    ATB,
    Sam
     
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  19. thiescea

    thiescea Loaded Pockets

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    Doesn't seem to have worked too well in regards to Maxpedition though despite the stickied thread.
     
  20. amacman
    • In Omnia Paratus

    amacman Loaded Pockets

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    I wouldn't be so sure. I know Tom Bihn Bags is getting a lot of business from members. Its safe to say some of those sales were taken from MaxP.