1. Are you a current member with account or password issues?

    Please visit following page for more information

    Dismiss Notice

91mm SAKs vs 84mm SAKs

Discussion in 'MultiTools and Other Pocket Tools' started by flatline, Aug 29, 2015.

  1. GeneralGlenn

    GeneralGlenn EDC Junkie!!!!!

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2015
    Messages:
    4,708
    Likes Received:
    48,440
    I prefer Victorinox over Wenger for a few reasons:

    Scale tools (Wenger toothpick and tweezers are hard to get to and less substantial iirc)

    Scissors: the scissors are serrated and move during use due to the spring design. Yes, the Victorinox spring breaks easier, but I've never had it happen and a replacement is easy to find.

    Evo scales: just meh, looks weird and doesn't do anything for me grip wise. (Not referring to the grippy scales with the rubberish inlay, don't have experience with those)

    Can opener: the Victorinox can opener wins for me due to SD tip that works well for Philips too.

    Awl: sharpened? Yes please. Victorinox wins.

    The Victorinox logo is nicer. Trivial, but counts.

    Now that Victorinox has been so brotherly in taking over Wenger and not killing them completely, some things are better: the can opener, scale tools, reamer and logo are good. The scissors are still meh though and I'd love a 84/85 mm compact (Victorinox model) with a screwdriver rather than a corkscrew. I keep hoping..

    However, it doesn't do it for me as they are absurdly expensive compared to 'regular' Victorinox models.

    Now, for the 84/85 vs 91 mm thing, the 91 mm fits the hand better, is sturdier, has more options, yet I carry a small tinker/sportsman/tourist/cadet/bantam more than my climber/huntsman/compact. I don't know why exactly, but it happens nonetheless. My brain and heart say 91mm, but history tells a different tale.

    My most carried SAK is an alox Electrician, seconded only by an alox (1983 Dutch army soldier to be precise)

    Don't get me started on alox though. I have advocated the return of the Voyageur since I learned of its existence. The rumours I've heard as well, and it seems like good news, but I'll have to see it to believe it.



    Sorry for the long rant, I have somewhat of a passion for these things.
     
  2. flatline

    flatline Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    May 19, 2012
    Messages:
    715
    Likes Received:
    1,000
    Rants are good for the soul sometimes.

    Here's my take on swiss army knives: more than anything, a SAK is a toy for me to amuse myself with that occasionally is actually useful for something (just like my flashlight and, to a lesser extent, my lead holders and drafting pencils). For reasons I cannot explain, my 91mm knives feel like tools rather than toys, but my fingers absolutely delight in fidgeting with my 84mm Small Tinker and 85mm Traveler.

    I lean towards the Wenger for a handful of reasons:

    1. nail file instead of small blade. I do most of my cutting with my modern folder, so why should my SAK dedicate a whole layer to blades that I won't use? Plus, I find that I use the nail file daily if I have it. Helps me resist the urge to chew my nails if I can smooth any rough edges.

    2. Scissors. Hand down, scissors are the #1 useful tool that I can have in a SAK. The small ones on my Classic are useful enough that I can carry my Small Tinker if I want to, but the larger scissors on the Traveler or on the 91mm Victorinox models are far superior to the 58mm scissors. If Victorinox made an 84mm or 85mm 2- or 3-layer model with scissors (that didn't have the Evo or EvoGrip scales...don't like them), I'd probably love it, but near as I can tell, they've long ago discontinued such models as the Salesman or Small Climber. I don't really have a preference for either the Wenger or Vic scissors, but the simple fact I can get Wenger scissors on the 85mm frame is a big win for Wenger in my book.

    3. Wenger punch is way easier to access than the Vic awl and no tool has caused me more wounds than the Vic awl because it's so hard to open for folks like me with weak fingernails. Also, I appreciate the simple geometry of the punch. The awl is just ugly to me. I've never really needed to use either, so I have no opinion on the superior usefulness of one over the other.

    4. The Vic can opener can be used to turn phillips screws, but then so can the Wenger nail file. So it's a draw. Both can openers will open cans, but the Wenger can opener can be used for scratching things like the Vic awl without the danger of the cursed Vic awl.

    But really, it mostly comes down to me wanting a size that is fun to fidget with. Even better if it has scissors.
     
    madlag and GeneralGlenn like this.
  3. GeneralGlenn

    GeneralGlenn EDC Junkie!!!!!

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2015
    Messages:
    4,708
    Likes Received:
    48,440
    flatline its funny how we have very different preferences but I too like them for their toy factor. (Playing with a small tinker as I type)

    I carry a rambler for the file and scissors (yes, bigger scissors are better, but it works for me)

    Happy stuff, really:D
     
    madlag likes this.
  4. flatline

    flatline Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    May 19, 2012
    Messages:
    715
    Likes Received:
    1,000
    If we all liked the same stuff, there'd be no variation in the marketplace. So it's win/win!
     
    madlag and GeneralGlenn like this.
  5. GeneralGlenn

    GeneralGlenn EDC Junkie!!!!!

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2015
    Messages:
    4,708
    Likes Received:
    48,440
    Wise words mate!
     
  6. Day Tripper

    Day Tripper Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2013
    Messages:
    210
    Likes Received:
    243
    I completely agree that they should bring back the Voyageur. I would love to have one, but even more so, I would love to have one that also had the can opener/phillips piece. That would be the perfect pocket SAK in my opinion.
     
    GeneralGlenn likes this.
  7. GeneralGlenn

    GeneralGlenn EDC Junkie!!!!!

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2015
    Messages:
    4,708
    Likes Received:
    48,440
    So an 84mm super tinker/climber without the back tools? I'd buy that
     
    madlag likes this.
  8. Mike 56

    Mike 56 Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2007
    Messages:
    123
    Likes Received:
    10
    Making a 84mm Climber/Supper Tinker from a small Tinker using 91mm scissors is do able. I plan on making a golfer using 91mm scissors
     
  9. Narcosynthesis

    Narcosynthesis Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,872
    Likes Received:
    1,194
    My EDC is an 84mm alox cadet, which should tell you something of my preferences...

    I have found that for 95% of my uses, the 84mm knives do it just as well, but with a fraction of the bulk in my pocket - the blade for example is slightly smaller, but not to a degree that impacts my normal uses (and with the thought that if that little extra length was important, I should be using something bigger than a 91mm SAK anyway).

    The only place where I see the larger tools being a bit more useful are in the range of options available - things like the scissors for example - and in using the saw, where that little bit of extra length actually does make a difference to its use.

    So for me, the cadet is my chosen 'urban' EDC, but if I am going away camping or out to the woods, I will often swap it for the alox farmer for the larger saw in the similar form factor (admittedly 93mm rather than 91mm, but close enough ;))
     
  10. flatline

    flatline Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    May 19, 2012
    Messages:
    715
    Likes Received:
    1,000
    The only way I can find scissors on the smaller frame is by going with the 85mm Wenger models (of which I have 4). I would love to find a Victorinox Salesman or Small Climber for less than collector prices, but I'm not holding my breath.

    Does anyone know why Victorinox stopped producing 84mm scissors?
     
  11. Day Tripper

    Day Tripper Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2013
    Messages:
    210
    Likes Received:
    243
    Exactly! I think that would be just about perfect...for me at least. You get the bottle opener and flat head that is actually straight and not a curved piece like on the Bantam or Waiter, plus you get the can opener that can be used as a phillips head. You would also get the scissors and large blade, which I think would make this a very versatile pocket tool.

    I have a Tinker and a Small Tinker, and while I thought it would be nice to have a true phillips head, it is so awkward using it the way it is designed, that I think most people would be better off with the can opener/phillips piece instead. Since the phillips head is on the bottom, and makes for a perpendicular opening instead of having the phillips head open up and lock on the end like most other SAK tools, it really makes for an unnatural wrist motion while trying to tighten or loosen screws...not to mention, it makes it difficult to use it in tight areas.
     
    GeneralGlenn likes this.
  12. sungame

    sungame Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2012
    Messages:
    3,211
    Likes Received:
    7,305

    As far as I know, the Alox Bantam is still in production.

    I have seen multiple sources stating that it is discontinued, and has been guilty of spreading this disinformation myself in the past. However, the Alox Bantam is still listed on the official Victorinox web page, and is easy enough to buy, online and otherwise. In other words, very much alive and kicking.

    The Voyageur, on the other hand ...
     
    GeneralGlenn likes this.
  13. Onico

    Onico Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2014
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    25
    84mm is so much easier to carry. An EDC should be good in hand, great in the pocket where it spends 99,9% of the time.
    It's sad that the offering s are much more limited in the 84mm range.
    84 mm has 95% of the utility and feels like half the load.
     
    GeneralGlenn likes this.
  14. GeneralGlenn

    GeneralGlenn EDC Junkie!!!!!

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2015
    Messages:
    4,708
    Likes Received:
    48,440
    Agreed on all points. Although I've grown to enjoy the combo tool. It works well for what it is and I don't run into many screws. This is from an urban point if view as a student, and many other scenarios would change that.
     
    fourSAK likes this.
  15. Flying Dutchman

    Flying Dutchman Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2011
    Messages:
    324
    Likes Received:
    128
    I prefer 84mm, the Tourist is my SAK of choice. I also have the Serrated Spartan, love that one as well but it is 91mm. Full serrated blade on my tourist would be :dance:
     
    GeneralGlenn likes this.
  16. flatline

    flatline Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    May 19, 2012
    Messages:
    715
    Likes Received:
    1,000
    How easy is it to keep the serrated blade sharp?
     
    GeneralGlenn likes this.
  17. GeneralGlenn

    GeneralGlenn EDC Junkie!!!!!

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2015
    Messages:
    4,708
    Likes Received:
    48,440
    I tried sharpening the serrations on a 111 mm SAK and its alright if you have a diamond or ceramic rod that's thin enough. Other than that it's pretty much impossible for as far as I know.
     
  18. znapschatz

    znapschatz Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2007
    Messages:
    1,662
    Likes Received:
    2,170

    Dunno. I've been using the Sharpmaker fine rods on my OH Trekker, which seems to get the job done. I can't say for sure if the blade is being sharpened optimally, but it does sharpen up.
     
    GeneralGlenn likes this.
  19. GeneralGlenn

    GeneralGlenn EDC Junkie!!!!!

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2015
    Messages:
    4,708
    Likes Received:
    48,440
    That's the most important thing, so who cares if it's perfect or not. I may have had smaller serrations, but my Sharpmaker stones didn't fit on mine. If that works, that's pretty awesome though.
     
  20. znapschatz

    znapschatz Loaded Pockets

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2007
    Messages:
    1,662
    Likes Received:
    2,170

    I'm pretty sure the serrations on yours are the same. I think what's happening with the Sharpmaker is while the scallops are untouched, the tips get dressed. But that's mostly where the action is in blades of that type. All I can say is that it seems to work.
    If eventually the serrations wear down, I'll live with it. Things change, not always for the worse. ;)
     
    GeneralGlenn likes this.