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6 firearms...

Discussion in 'Handguns' started by jda, Aug 25, 2013.

  1. FL Woods Bum
    • In Omnia Paratus

    FL Woods Bum Your Grace!

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    I always wanted a Robinson Arms XCR and even wrote my congressman when the XCR was disqualified from the SCAR competition because of missing blank adapters when they were delivered (standard M-16 adapters). So, two years ago I decided to bite the bullet and buy one. Like any gun purchase I took the time to research it thoroughly and that meant talking to owners of the weapon in question as well as test firing one if possible. One owner I found through my local gunshop was willing to let me shoot it when it came back from being repaired in 4 months. 4 MONTHS!!! I asked what that was all about and he told me to go to the Robinson Armament support forums before I decided to buy an XCR as he was already second guessing his 2 month old purchase. After reading Mr. Robinson's own posts on a few of the AR forums and his company's support forum I realized he is a raving egomaniac. Based on his forum posts he obviously thinks that supporting any issues with his guns is an "at my leisure" type of situation. Again, this was 2 years ago, so maybe he has mellowed in that time (or hired a PR person). :unsure:
     
  2. hunter s gatherer
    • In Omnia Paratus

    hunter s gatherer EDC Junkie!!!

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    Nope! If you lurk on XCR forum you will see that Alex and co. are always getting lambasted. The company is almost vaporware if you ask me. I really like the shooter, but when I went to get other caliber kits it just didn't happen from a service standpoint; that's when I went to Templar. It still took me a year, but it was at the height of shortages during the election year. Plus Templar is only about 30 minutes from my house. If Bob gets lazy I just go darken his doorstep.
     
  3. LivingUpNorth

    LivingUpNorth Loaded Pockets

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    Okay, here goes. Some are ones that I either own or have experience with, others are on the wish list.

    Centerfire handgun: XD-45 Tactical (own) - I love my tack driver XD and it's been completely reliable over the years I've owned it.
    Rimfire handgun: Ruger 22/45 (borrowed) - Since I can't hit the broad side of a barn with my LCR-22, I'll have to go with the 22/45 I used at the range a couple weeks ago. Great ergos, super accurate, and you can get a threaded barrel for a suppressor.
    Centerfire rifle: Springfield M1A SOCOM II (wish list) - While I realize the AR platform is probably better overall, for a number of reasons, I just love the looks of the M1A. No experience with it, it's just something I want.
    Bolt action rifle: Remington 700 in .30-06 (own) - yeah, it's not the most capable cartridge, but it still does everything I need it to, plus it's widely available. I've never owned a crisper trigger than the one that came with my 700.
    Rimfire rifle: Ruger 10/22 (own) - All around best .22LR rifle you can buy.
    Shotgun: Benelli M4 (wish list) - The one I held in the store felt great; plus with a mag extension and a light, you'd have one seriously BA shotgun.
     
  4. RBid

    RBid Loaded Pockets

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    Centerfire handgun: Glock 19 Gen 4. Easy to conceal, comfortable to carry, easy to be accurate with at speed or distance. I've worked in the business, and have handled and/or fired most popular service pistols and compacts. After it all, this is my top choice.


    Rimfire handgun: Advantage Arms .22LR conversion for G19 Gen 4. Inexpensive practice. Win.


    Centerfire semi auto rifle: Daniel Defense M4 V1 (DDM4 V1). ARs are tough to beat as all-purpose rifles and as recreational shooters. This is one of many great options in the AR market.


    Boltaction centerfire rifle: Remington 700 SPS Tactical with aftermarket stock, in .308. Solid system to build on. Barrel is short enough to save some weight while still allowing an appropriately skilled shooter to stretch beyond ranges that I would ever need to shoot at.


    Rimfire rifle: Ruger 10/22. Fun, fun, fun.


    Shotgun: Remington 870 Express Tactical with a pistol grip + adjustable stock, full length mag tube, and mounted light.



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  5. BklynBoy

    BklynBoy Loaded Pockets

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    The only nit I have to pick with this thread is that If I could have only 6 guns I would have both a full size/mid sized centerfire pistol (in my case an M&Pf in 9mm) and something I could conceal more easily (in my case a Kahr PM9). I would gladly drop the rimfire pistol for that. Thank goodness my dear wife has not limited me to 6 :)
     
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  6. Slipjoint

    Slipjoint Loaded Pockets

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    5.56 relies on fragmentation for stopping power. A lot of people mistakenly believe that "tumbling" is what makes it work, but the actual mechanism is fragmentation. Assuming you have a properly constructed bullet, 5.56 will begin to fragment above 2500 feet per second. To reliably fragment, however, you need a velocity above 2700 feet per second. Because adequate projectile speed is extremely critical to fragmentation, barrel length plays a large role in how far the round can travel before fragmentation range drops off.

    Within it's fragmentation range, 5.56 can be devastating, often more so than much more powerful rounds. The projectile loses speed as it travels, however, and once it drops below fragmentation range, it simply punches a .22 caliber hole in the target. Shorter barrels can dramatically reduce the muzzle velocity, and this reduces the effective fragmentation range. I know everybody loves those sexy little shorties, but they drastically reduce the combat effectiveness of the cartridge (if you really need a shorter weapon, consider a 5.56 bullpup rifle which will greatly reduce overall length without the need to compromise on barrel length).

    The problem is that most people don't understand the relationship between the fragmentation mechanic and the various gun and ammo combinations. It also doesn't help that the military's understanding of the issue lags far behind that of the civilian sector.

    Barrel M193 M855
    Length (55 gr.) (62 gr.)
    -----------------------------------------
    20" 190-200m 140-150m

    16" 140-150m 90-95m

    14.5" 95-100m 45-50m

    11.5" 40-45m 12-15m

    The chart above shows that M193 ammo fragments out to about 200 meters out of a 20 inch barrel. Each step down in barrel length reduces the fragmentation range by about 50 yards. M855 ammo fares even worse, especially out of the shorty carbines. M855 is the steel-core penetrator round that the military uses most commonly. It penetrates barriers much better than the M193, but as you can see above, it's combat effectiveness is greatly reduced. A big part of the reason that soldiers are having problems with stopping power in the sandbox is because they're using a bad rifle/ammo combo (M855 and 14.5" or shorter weapons).

    Personally, I'd recommend buying mostly M193, and only keeping a small supply of M855 on hand for special occasions where you think you'll need the extra penetration. A barrel with a 1-in-9 twist is ideal for stabilizing both rounds. I'd also recommend getting a full 20 inch upper for best effect. The 16" barrel is fine for close up work, but I don't feel the 14.5 is really worth it.

    For civilian purposes, you can also use expanding bullets. These won't hit as hard as a fragmenting bullet will, but they will continue to expand at longer ranges which increases your wounding potential beyond fragmentation range. These also work pretty well out of shorty carbines. If you need more fragmentation range, you can upgrade to the 77gr loads that push the maximum effective range out. Short barreled carbines will see a more dramatic improvement than 20" barrels will with the heavier rounds.

    So why bother with 5.56?

    Every firearm is a compromise between various factors. The AR-15 in 5.56 is not the ideal do-everything weapon/ammo combination but it's outstanding for closeup work.
    It's an amazingly efficient round for it's weight and bulk and it hits hard within it's fragmentation range. Beyond fragmentation range you'll need expanding ammo to keep the effectiveness up, but I'd argue that there is no finer round for fighting below 200 yards (assuming you have the proper weapon/ammo combination). That's ideal for most civilian uses and for military combat in cities and villages.
     
  7. FL Woods Bum
    • In Omnia Paratus

    FL Woods Bum Your Grace!

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    Or, I can just stick with my 7.62x51mm and not have to worry about all the math related to "will my 5.56 be effective for this shot". ;)

    Thanks for the breakdown though, I am sure someone will be able to take something away from it.
     
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  8. Slipjoint

    Slipjoint Loaded Pockets

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    7.62x39 is not a very efficient round. It's heavy and bulky to carry but doesn't provide a ton of stopping power for all that weight. It does make a bigger hole than a non-fragmenting 5.56 round, which makes it better in a short barreled carbine. But it's nowhere near as potent as a 5.56 round that fragments.

    The 300 Whisper/Blackout are interesting largely because they work really well with suppressors. They're a little better than 5.56 at longer ranges, and work well in shorter carbines, but they're still rather inefficient rounds for general use.

    6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC, on the other hand, are amazing and pretty revolutionary. But they're not an attempt to recreate 7.62x39.

    The inspiration for these rounds comes from the early experiments in 6.5 and 7mm rounds. A lot of countries were experimenting with calibers less than .30 caliber but the US pig-headedly refused to adopt anything less powerful than the .30-06 after World War 2 which led to NATO adopting the 7.62 Nato round rather than the superior .280 British caliber (or something similar). Ballisticians had already figured out that you got a lot more bang for your buck with smaller rounds in the 6.5 range, but it took incidents like "Blackhawk Down" before ammo designers would really look hard at the effectiveness of the 5.56 caliber and start trying to finagle a 6.5 round into the AR-15.

    Unfortunately, it doesn't look like either round will be adopted by the military any time soon. Personally, I think 6.5 Grendel would be the ideal choice for desert warfare. :cool:
     
  9. Varmitslayer

    Varmitslayer Loaded Pockets

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    Centerfire handgun - Glock 23 just because I'm used to it.
    Rimfire handgun - Ruger- .22 charger, 25 rounds of squirrel thumpin fury.
    Centerfire semi auto rifle- Larue tactical OBR .308, from the reviews I've seen it's pretty accurate.
    Boltaction centerfire rifle - Surgeon rifles scalpel in .260 rem. most accurate rifle I've ever shot.
    Rimfire rifle - Magnum research magnum lite .22 mag, It's a varmit slayer.
    Shotgun - Belgium Browning A-5, I just love this shotgun and it brings back memories.

    Added even though not technically a firearm.
    Air rifle- Daystate Huntsman classic .25, pretty and powerful.
     
  10. Leverdoug

    Leverdoug Loaded Pockets

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    1.) Taurus PT111 G2 9mm or SigPro 2022 9mm (this will be my next gun purchase)
    2.) H&R Sportsman DA revolver 6" barrel
    3.) don't own one but if I buy one it will be a Ruger Mini 14
    4.) Remington Model 7 7mm-08
    5.) Marlin Model 25 7-shot magazine
    6.) Mossberg 500 18" cylinder bore barrel.

    And I'm adding a seventh category, lever action rifle
    7.) Marlin 1895gbl 45-70gov't or my modified Marlin 336sc in .35rem. Love my levers.
     
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  11. kynwatch

    kynwatch Loaded Pockets

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    Centerfire handgun - Sig 1911 Carry Nightmare - Accurate, dependable, and carries easily
    Centerfire semi auto rifle- Daniel Defense M4V4 in it's the current setup - It fun and useful
    Boltaction centerfire rifle - no opinion
    Rimfire rifle - 1976 Marlin 39a, most accurate rimfire I own and will never part with it!!
    Shotgun - Benelli Nova Tactical - my 13yo daughter enjoys it
     
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  12. neginfluence04

    neginfluence04 Loaded Pockets

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    XDm 9mm = own
    Bushmaster ACR = own
    M&P22 pistol = own
    Mossberg 590A1 = own
    Savage 110FCP .338 = on my list
     
  13. romac

    romac Loaded Pockets

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    Centerfire handgun; Glock 17 - like putting on your favorite old jeans

    Rimfire handgun - SR22 - great all around gun. I guess I'd opt for the threaded barrel

    Centerfire semi auto rifle - M&P 15 - good, affordable performer

    Boltaction centerfire rifle - not my thing at all, but a Remington 700 because that's the benchmark standard in my eyes.

    Rimfire rifle - 10/22 for the options and aftermarket

    Shotgun - Mossberg 590 - I'm familiar with the platform and they're tough as nails


    Sent from my iPad
     
  14. Agent Berry

    Agent Berry Loaded Pockets

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    ......
     
    Last edited by Agent Berry, Jul 15, 2017
    #74 Agent Berry, Mar 14, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2017
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  15. prayformojo

    prayformojo Loaded Pockets

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    centerfire handgun -- CZ 75 Shadow
    rimfire handgun -- Ruger Mark III Hunter
    centerfire semi-auto rifle -- DSA FN FAL
    bolt action centerfire rifle -- Steyr SSG 69
    rimfire rifle -- Sig 522LR (with silencer)
    shotgun -- 870
     
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  16. Kryptonian

    Kryptonian EDC Junkie

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    Centerfire handgun-m&p 40c, good ballistics, concealable, excepts full size magazines.
    Rimfire handgun- s&w model 617, revolvers are reliable and accurate, non ammo picky (common problem in 22lr pistols)
    Centerfire rifle- ar-15 platform rifle shots 5.56, 223 ammo, easy to operate maintain and accessories
    Bolt action rifle- model 70 30-06 good for big game, and distance shooting.
    Shotgun- Mossberg 500 there's a reason so many police department use them, they just work.
     
  17. Kryptonian

    Kryptonian EDC Junkie

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    Sorry my rimfire rifle choice is the m&p 15-22, good reliable 22lr high capacity and. Test bed for your ar platform rifle.
     
  18. Geary Mitchell
    • In Omnia Paratus

    Geary Mitchell Loaded Pockets

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    My choices, based on guns I already own..

    Centerfire handgun--- Glock 19
    Rimfire handgun--- PMR 30
    Centerfire semi-auto rifle--- AR15
    Bolt action center fire rifle--- Remington 700 30.06
    Rimfire rifle ---- Ruger 10/22
    Shotgun--- FN 12 gauge
     
  19. Papa Lima

    Papa Lima Loaded Pockets

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    Center fire Handgun: Smith and Wesson M&P FS
    Ergonomics, relatively cheap to shoot 9mm, abundance of ammunition, local and federal agencies use 9mm, durable as any other Tupperware gun, lightweight, plenty of aftermarket parts.
    [​IMG]
    Rim fire Handgun: Smith and Wesson 617
    Shoots like a dream, 10 rounds, cheap to shoot .22lr, built like a tank, stockpile ammo easily. "If it fails, you can always bludgeon them with it".
    [​IMG]
    Center fire Rifle: CZ 858 Tactical
    Chrome lined barrel, cheap ammo 7.62x39, combat accurate, milled receiver, last shot hold open, bomb proof.
    [​IMG]
    Bolt action Rifle: Don't own one...I'd say Remington 700 .308
    Rim fire Rifle: Ruger 10/22 Takedown
    Portable, concealable, cheap ammunition, proven system, accurate, no recoil, extended cap mags, plethora of aftermarket parts, legendary!
    [​IMG]
    Shotgun: Remington 870
    Proven system, minimal maintenance, versatile ammunition choices (pump will cycle anything), good mag capacity, cheap enough to own, rugged reliability.
    [​IMG]

    Sent from the International Space Station
     
  20. airgunner

    airgunner Empty Pockets

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    These type of threads are fun but kind of tough too without more criteria such as can the guns be stock or modified? Can you cheat by having an AR with multiple uppers? What are you going to do with this guns? Etc..

    I'm going to do this 2 ways. My first list are the "classic" guns that every real gun enthusiast should own. The second list would be my personal "if I could only have one" list...

    The must have classics...
    Centerfire handgun = Colt 1911
    Rimfire handgun = Ruger 22/45 (MKII is an exceptionable substitution)
    Centerfire semi auto rifle = Colt M4 (or equivalent)
    Boltaction centerfire rifle = Remington 700 (caliber of choice. 30-06 or 308Win are the classics but I personally think the .260Rem is a much better round)
    Rimfire rifle = Ruger 10/22
    Shotgun = Remington 870

    The Practical, one gun to do it all...
    Centerfire handgun = Glock G19 (w/AA or TacSol .22lr upper). factorying in everything, I think there is no better all around pistol on the market.
    Rimfire handgun = S&W 41 (w/5" field barrel). The Ruger and Buckmarks get it done but after shooting a 41, its really hard to go back to the cheaper, budget priced alternatives. The only downside is how hard it is to find a 5" field barrel for the 41.
    Centerfire semi auto rifle = AR-15 w/2 uppers (11.5" SBR, Aimpoint, light, etc. & 16" Middy with 1-6x optic)
    Boltaction centerfire rifle = Ruger R77 gunsight edition scout rifle with 18" SS barrel. Pretty much a do it all bolt gun.
    Rimfire rifle = Tough one. The 10/22 just has so many options but a CZ 452 or 455 American is one hell of a rifle and bargain to boot.
    Shotgun = Hard to go against the 870 but I think the best, do it all SG out there is a Benelli M2 with the 21" field barrel. Great for anything from defense to 3gun to hunting, clays games, you name it.