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Discussion in 'Handguns' started by jda, Aug 25, 2013.
Another Marine not showing the AR/M4 some love...
Wonder if that's a coincidence?
Seriously, I don't get it. Ar is a great platform at long range. But to many moving parts. And in an urban setting are you really going to engage anyone over 200 yards. In a wrol scenario If I see someone at that distance and they don't see me I'm going the other way. I love my Arsenal slr 101s
For the Marine and Army folks would you have preferred to been issued an AK over an M4?
I think my choices would be the same as the OP with the exception of the centerfire rifle, I'd prefer a Ruger Scout Rifle (scoped of course). For the Shotgun, I like the 870 but would go for the Marine Magnum and additional barrels for wing shooting. Additional barrels and parts for other calibers for the Glock as well.
Centerfire handgun -XDs .45. For me pistols fall into two categories, carry guns and plinking guns. This is a firearm that I can carry ever single day. For an EDC gun it is hard to beat. I'd love to pick a Sig 226 here, but honestly I wouldn't carry a Sig 226 every day. To bulky, especially for shorts and t-shirt weather. So I'm picking a firearm that I know I'll carry every day.
Rimfire - Ruger single-six. I've got a .22Mag version (inherited it) Amazing handgun. I absolutly love .22mag, its really fun to shoot. I'm going to find a .22lr cylinder just because .22lr is cheaper and easier to find than .22mag. This is my favorite plinking gun of all time.
Centerfire semi auto rifle - M-4...I carried one in the Army. This is my choice for a combat weapon.
Boltaction centerfire rifle - Going off script. I'm going to take my Marlin 336 in .30-.30. Good all around firearm even if it is limited capacity. Can be used for hunting or pressed into combat/self-defense should the need arise. If I could only own one firearm, it would be this.
Rimfire rifle - Ruger 10/22. Cheap and fun to shoot. Lots of aftermarket parts to modify. Easy to maintain and reliable.
Shotgun - Mossberg 500 series...Prefer it slightly to the the Remington 870. Lots of configurations and accessories.
tmedina said it best...
That statement rings loud in my ears concerning the M16A2...
I transfer some of that dislike to other M4/AR platforms; admittedly unfairly...
As an 11-Bravo (combat infantryman), the M-16A2 was my favorite weapon in the armory. Once I got out of the army, I got my own civilian version, and it has remained one of my favorites. There's a reason why the AR-15 is one of the most popular weapons in the world (see below).
The AK series is generally quite reliable, but suffers from lousy accuracy. Its two main ammo types, 7.62x39 and 5.45x39 also have mediocre terminal performance, and the 7.62x39 is HEAVY, bulky and inefficient. The sights suck and the ergonomics are dreadful. The safety is LOUD when you need to be stealthy, and difficult to switch without taking your hand off the pistol grip.
Reloading is also a horror. There's no bolt hold open feature; when you're out of ammo, your first indication is a "click" as the hammer drops on an empty chamber.
The magazines have an awkward rocking motion required to change them, and the bolt handle is on the wrong side for a right handed shooter. And because there's no bolt hold open feature, there's also no bolt release. On the range, these are insignificant issues. On the battlefield they're going to burn up precious seconds that you may not have.
And if there's something about your rifle that you don't really like, you're going to have a hell of a time changing it. The AK does not lend itself toward user-friendly modification.
In comparison, the AR is known for its accuracy and the proper military 5.56 ammo fragments on impact, creating devastating wounds. There are a lot of bog standard 5.56 variants depending upon your needs, but the AR-15 can also shoot at least a dozen other rounds if you wish. Some, like the 6.5 and 6.8 rounds offer much better performance while still maintaining excellent accuracy out to a few hundred yards.
The issue AR sights are excellent (arguably among the best ever made) and the weapon's ergonomics are likewise outstanding. Mag changes are fast and efficient, and all of the controls are where they should be. Left handed and ambidextrous controls are also available.
While the AR has had reliability issues, there are two major things that can alleviate most problems: Proper training on maintenance, and quality magazines.
The AR needs regular cleaning due to its direct gas-impingement system. While this does make the weapon run dirtier than most other designs, it keeps the weapon light, reduces recoil, and contributes to the outstanding accuracy of the platform. However, for those who insist on a piston-based system, you can buy an upper with that feature if you wish.
Many jams are also caused by the magazines. When a soldier is running around and drops to the ground, he will often slam his magazine into the ground, driving it into the weapon. This will develop hairline cracks in the feed lips of the standard aluminum magazines. By simply culling out the bad magazines in your collection, you can dramatically reduce the incidence of malfunctions in your weapon. An even better solution is to simply switch to Magpul's excellent polymer magazines where this is not an issue.
Once you know to to maintain your rifle, and have secured a supply of good magazines, reliability shouldn't be a problem under most circumstances. Yes the AK still has an edge on reliability, but this will really only be an issue in extreme conditions like those encountered in Iraq and Afghanistan. In a sandstorm, any weapon can malfunction, even the legendary AK!
However, what really makes the AR shine is its modularity.
The standard upper receiver comes in multiple variations, and barrel lengths. The best is the flat-top upper, which can easily mount the optic of your choice or a standard carry handle if that's what you like. This makes it possible to easily swap out calibers; your 5.56 AR can become a .22lr, a 5.7 (complete with P-90 mags), or even a single-shot .50 caliber bolt action. A guy with one legal AR-15 lower can have 10 different uppers that offer up unique combinations of barrel length, caliber, and sighting systems and they can all be swapped out in seconds!
On the lower receiver, the stock and pistol grip are easily swapped out for any of dozens of excellent alternatives. The modularity also means that mulitple uppers can share the same lower, or that a single upper can share multiple lowers. This is especially nice if you live in a strict state where you need a bullet button or a fixed magwell in your weapon; you're not stuck with a gimped weapon if you move to a more free-minded state.
And then there's the quad-rail systems that allow the user ultimate customization. Forward grips, forward mounted optics, flashlights, lasers, sling mounts, sights that allow you to shoot around corners... you can even mount a second gun on your gun (just make sure you jump thru the legal loopholes first!).
So yeah, I'm an AR-15 fan.
Centerfire Handgun: Glock 19... the best all-around combat pistol ever made.
Rimfire Handgun: Ruger MkII with built-in suppressor. Ruger Bearcat is the runner up in this category.
Centerfire Semi-Auto Rifle: AR-15 with a few spare uppers in various configurations and calibers.
Bolt-Action Centerfire: I'll assume that this is a long range choice, rather than a simple Fudd-gun for hunting. That having been said, I'd go with something that had some reach in the 600-800 yards range. I have a heavy barreled Savage 110 that will do, but I'm not dead set on it being the best rifle for the job.
Rimfire Rifle: Marlin Model 60 with long barrel, 18-round tube magazine, and bolt hold-open feature. Out of the box, the Marlin is a better rifle than the 10/22 and this rare variant is the best of the model 60s.
Shotgun: Mossberg 500 with Speedfeed stock, Surefire flashlight forend, and an 'ghost ring' sights. A spare 14" barrel (also with ghost ring sights) for room clearing, and a spare 28" barrel for hunting/trap shooting.
Levergun- Rifle Caliber: Marlin 336 with scout scope and aperture sights
Levergun- Pistol Caliber: Rossi M92 in .44 magnum with 16" barrel and aperture sights
Deep Carry Pistol: Kel-Tec P32
Pocket Utility Pistol: NAA Mini-Master with .22 and .22 magnum cylinders
I wasn't sure
Centerfire handgun: Ruger SR9 or SR9c- soft shooter. 9mm is cheap and reasonably effective
Rimfire handgun: Ruger 22/45 Black Lite. Can be suppressed for when you need to be quiet.
Centerfire semi auto rifle: Arsenal SLR 106 CR with a 5.56 chamber easy to find ammo. Strong and robust weapons platform.
Boltaction centerfire rifle: Savage Hog Hunter. Value added 308 sniper rifle.
Rimfire rifle: Sig 522 Commando- because I like it.
Shotgun: Norinco M98 shotgunI am well aware that my gun list is not full of a lot of high speed, lo drag gear, but seeing as how I don't kick in doors for a living or hunt Al Qaeda terrorists for fun and profit, they will do what I need to get done.
I see there are a bunch of like minded individual's here.
centerfire pistol--- the 226 is the best auto pistol I have ever shot. I would get a 40 so I could shoot 40, 357 sig, 9mm and 22 out of it
Rimfire-- 22 mk 2 or 3. gold standard for accuracy and reliability.
Center Auto Rifle-- A Noveske ar...although a Scar 17 is tempting
Center Bolt-- a Sako 30.06 so I can kill anything in North America
Rimfire rifle-- Ruger 10/22 thats a slam dunk!!
Centerfire handgun- Glock G19 gen 4, night sights & 3.5lb trigger bar shoots great, every time.
Rimfire handgun- Ruger Mark3 22/45, not a fan of ruger but they have rimfire stuff down and .
Centerfire semi auto rifle- SA M1A with krieger mach barrel, was a toss up between this & my AR, but got to love the .308 going down range.
Boltaction centerfire rifle- Savage 10 fcp McMillian w/ timney trigger, 18in threaded barrel, Leopold mark 4 scope, amazing firing rifle.
Rimfire rifle- Ruger 10/22 with target barrel/stock again for a .22 very reliable.
Shotgun - Wilson combat modified 870, ghost ring sights and surefire pump one of my favorites to shoot.
This fun thread deserves a BUMP!!!
Centerfire handgun: Walther PPQ 9mm love the feel of this gun
Rimfire handgun: Browning buckmark I have 17 mags for it
Semi-auto centerfire rifle: either SCAR or AK74 depends on what what is closer
Bolt action centerfire rifle: Savage fp10 18" barrel
Rimfire rifle: Ruger 10/22
Shotgun: Mossberg 590a1
colt anaconda with 5 inch barrel chambered in .44 magnum with a colt custom job...
why...because when i start shooting i want some room between me and the water buffalo...
ruger mk2 slabside...
why...who doesn't like a hand held tack driver...
Centerfire semi auto rifle.
ruger mini thirty...
Bolt action centerfire rifle
savage 110 in.308
why...moa out of the box...
ruger 10/22 in stainless with a scope big enough to make a squirrels head look like a basketball at 200yds...
why...cause i like to eat squirrel...
spas 12 if i need to repel a zombie hoard...
stoeger coach gun for normal villains and dusting clays...
stevens 16 gauge side by side for field work...
100+ years of being reliable in every corner of the globe through every American war, police action, and skirmish since before WW1 is a good enough track record for me to bet my life on. That and the fact that since getting my first at age 13 from my grandfather, it survived my erratic childhood without a hiccup, that's saying a lot. Just stay away from "custom" 1911s put together from parts kits with no hand fitting before slapping someone's name on them and you will be good.
Ruger MK2 Government Model
Bill Ruger got the MK1 right back in 1949 and to me this is my favorite iteration. I have owned each generation and I stick with this one. Accurate, reliable, and solid as a rock.
Centerfire Semi Auto Rifle
M1A Scout Squad Rifle
I prefer a compact rifle with punch for most situations and this rifle gives me that in a reliable platform known for accuracy.
Bolt Action Centerfire Rifle
Remington Model 700 in 308 Win or 300 Win Mag
Yet another long lived and versatile rifle platform.
Marlin Model 981T
This is by far the most versatile .22 rifles I have ever owned. For a modern .22 bolt action, it will accurately shoot and feed everything from .22 CB Shorts to .22 Long Rifle from the tube.
Overall this platform can handle any shotgun situation with accuracy, ergonomics, and reliability. There are also more accessories for this than any other shotgun platform I am aware of which makes it easy to find upgrade and repair parts for.
So, before I get asked, let me answer the two penetrating questions.
Why no Glock?? Having owned a Gen 1 G17 since 1990, I can tell you that I enjoy their guns, but they are far from infallible as modern myth would have you believe. My Glock has well over 200,000 rounds through it and it's been back to Glock at least 3 times for failures with everything from the trigger disconnect to the magazine release. All of my magazines were replaced by Glock 10 years ago due to the mag drop issue that was occurring with older Glocks and a replacement buffer spring as they were failing quite often in the Gen 1s. Now, would I take one into a serious situation? Of course I would, but it would not be my preference which is what I understood the OP wanted.
Why no M16/M4 variant?? Having carried an M16A1 and an M16A2 I can tell you the first thing I requested was to be moved to a weapons squad to carry an M60 instead. Then I was handed a Gen 1 SAW and we all bitched about that until we got our M60s back. My issue with the M16 platform has always been the choice of using 5.56 in it. The problem with the 5.56 has always been that it's not as reliable of a killer as we would like it to be, especially in the shorter barrel carbines we all prefer. The terminal ballistics of 5.56 have always been a "best case scenario" of high speed and a good tumble upon impact. The reality is that the 5.56 likes to punch straight through more often than it fragments or tumbles so that it can take multiple hits to bring an adversary down. I was surprised to hear that someone thinks the 7.62x39mm was an inadequate round since the U.S. Military holds it in such high regards that it has been trying to duplicate the round in the M16/M4 platform for 20+ years now, ever heard of the 300 Whisper, 300JDJ, 6.5 Grendal, 6.8 SPC, 300 Blackout?
Anyways.. that's my list.
Centerfire handgun: CZ75B. Great combination of capacity, reliability and ergonomics. Runner-up: Security-Six.
Rimfire handgun: Browning Buckmark. Again, a combination of reliability and ergonomics.
Centerfire semi auto rifle: Saiga 7.62x39. Just because it's fun to shoot.
Boltaction centerfire rifle: Browning A-Bolt 30-06.
Rimfire rifle: Ruger 10/22. Reliable, fun, reasonably accurate and infinite modification possibilities.
Shotgun: Winchester Super X2. Does everything well and has been 100% reliable for almost 15 years.
Guns I own or have owned:
Marlin Model 60
*I'm going to cheat and substitute my FAL (an STG-58) for the shotgun, since I don't consider shotguns to be as important.
Dream list of 6 guns:
Ruger MkII (with integral suppressor)
AR-15 or Magpul Masada
Scout Rifle of some type (Steyr Scout, Ruger Gunsite Scout, Savage Scout)
Ruger 10/22 with full auto trigger and integrally suppressed barrel*
*Assuming the full auto and suppressor are off the table, I'm still going with the Marlin Model 60.
**I'm going to cheat and substitute either a FAL with an ACOG scope or a Kel-Tec Sub 2000 for the less useful shotgun.
The seventh gun on either list would be the Kel-Tec P32, because I think a good deep carry pistol is a necessity and I feel that the P32 exemplifies the best balance between power, weight, controllability, an concealability.
You might notice that the Glock 19, Ruger MkII appear on both lists. I am of the opinion that they both are the very best at what they do. The AR-15, Savage bolt actions, FAL, and Marlin Model 60 also appear on both lists in some form or another.
In particular, I think the Model 60 is way better than the 10/22 straight out of the box. Yes, the 10/22 is more versatile and has faster ammo changes, but I don't think those are as important as people make them out to be. For me, the greater accuracy and reliability of the Model 60 are much more important. I also think the controls and sights are significantly better.
Don't get me wrong, I like the 10/22 and I think it's a great gun. But I LOVE the Model 60. I'd sell my 10/22 with no regrets but I would not part with a Model 60 unless I was seriously destitute.
Centerfire: Springfield 45XDS
Rimfire: Stoeger Luger 22
Semi Auto Rifle(s): Templar Custom MCWS (multi caliber weapon sys) DI 556 Wylde, 300AAC, 6.5 Grendel. with a can.
Robinson Arms XCR (multi caliber weapon sys) Piston 7.62x39
Shotgun: Winchester pump