Shill Posters.

[50ft-trad]

I think it's right to let the company have a chance to identify the cause of the problem (in the case of rogue employees), or apologise in the event of bad corporate decisions/methods, but I also feel that it would be in members interests to know which manufacturers/traders are prepared to use underhand methods. After all, this could well be reflected in other areas of their business practices be it quality or customer service.

I would welcome a hall of shame, or if you wanted to play it safer, a hall of potentially dubious conduct etc - where those companies (or members) are not playing the game are flagged, and inappropriate behaviour detailed. I think this would be better if moderator controlled (locked thread) though, so as to not descend into an angry/malicious free for all. It would also be beneficial if there was a clear way for the "guilty" parties to appeal / resolve the issue.

It's your choice Jon, and I'll be happy with whatever you choose, but the "Rogues Gallery" approach may discourage many shill posters if they know it will give them a bad rep.

my $0.02

[primal]

My current Internet access is crippled because we just moved. I'm relying on an unstable tether, and won't get fully connected again till Wed.

However, I had to chime in on this issue.

I believe shill posters should be named. I'm guessing that at least a few of them have caused grief on this forum by way of not just promoting their company's brand/product, but by also knocking other brands, and perhaps inciting flames. That's a double-whammy in my book.

Also, I have a feeling that the majority of shill posters are involved in sales for their company/s, which means that their company's are probably not only aware of this particular sales tactic (shill posting), they more than likely instructed and/or encouraged it, again, in my opinion.

All that said, since these companies have benefitted from all the previous shill posting, it's only right that these individuals be exposed, especially since they (the companies) had to have known, I believe. Regardless, if they didn't know, they should have. Those who have been contacted in the past by Jon certainly knew.

No accusations and/or posturing is necessary. Just list the facts. List the person/s connected to the company IPs, and which posts were sent from those IPs. After reading the post/s for themselves, let the Membership judge, for themselves.

I bet once the shill posters & IPs have been exposed, those companies will be quick to reply to our Admin (Jon) with a response/s intended to explain the "confusion" and/or "misunderstanding".

Frankly, I think these companies and their employees are relying on the honor of EDC Forums to not expose the shill posters, which is why some may just ignore Jon's emails.

I can appreciate sales strategies, I really can. But, shill posting is just outright dishonest, and I think it speaks volumes about whichever companies do it.

I'd like to know which companies are doing this, so I can make sure not to deal with them in the future.

I have a feeling I won't be too surprised if/when a list is ever posted. I've seen way too many herding techniques here.

[JonSidneyB]

These are Americans....and I want to see Americans do well but not with these practices.

[primal]

These are Americans....

Yep, as expected, which is why I won't be surprised if it turns out these shill posters contributed to knocking other brands, especially foreign brands.

Hey, it's the American Way. Actually, I take that back. It's the way of the United States.

No reason to bring down the rest of the AMERICAS (the U.S. isn't the only American country, and they don't own exclusive title to America/American).

Argh! Tether slowing down. Will try to check back tonight. Would like to see this thread's outcome.

Thanks for letting us know what's going on, Jon. I truly appreciate it. It's why I joined.

[JonSidneyB]

I don't know if they have done that. I have not spotted them bashing any products. Just subtly trying bumping a thread here and there and making a few posts. From what it looks like they are just trying to keep the name more visible. What I don't like is they happened to have the products...well the IP address goes back to the manufacturer.

It seems like this behavior happens at the entire spectrum of quality. Stuff that is very good and is going to get known anyway just by virtue of the products. Sometimes it is stuff that is getting plenty of free publicity from customers, sometimes it is middle quality stuff that is either a good price value or a poor one down the the cheapest items. I don't think they are afraid of the product being compared to other products in the price range. The regular members are doing that a bit already which is the way it should be.

Some companies don't really need much advertising by the time they get here and I understand that. If they don't need it they don't need it but it seems that some want to pump it up a little more while acting like a customer.

The person in the company that I should talk to is not available at the moment. I have sent the email and will give it a couple of days and see if i hear back from them. Part of my concern is that this could be just one employee and that the company does not behave this way as a rule. I was actually quite surprised when I saw the company name associated with the IP address. Though I have never seen their products they have too much legitimate going on I would think to shill. There is no way for me to know if this is normal for them of just a fluke.

The biggest reason for this post is to let shill posters know that if it continues no matter how much I don't want to do it I will eventually have to do something to reduce how often it happens if it continues.

[primal]

...but it seems that some want to pump it up a little more while acting like a customer.

(Gonna try this directly from my Droid.)

The thing is, if it's coming directly from the company IP, then it's most likely happening on company time, during the course of employment. Again, the company either knows or should have known. Regardless, they're accountable, imo.

If it is decided to post a list, at least it will limit the focus on specific individuals. As it stands, now that the cat is out of bag, we don't know who to trust. Unwarranted suspicion may run rampant. Okay, maybe not rampant. Still, it is a distraction.

I'll support Jon's decision, either way.

[JonSidneyB]

I just got an email from them. I will explain what has me wondering. When i look at posting history there are several IP addresses that were not a match then the companies IP address itself appeared. The company IP caught my attention fast but was quite by accident. It looks like the other IP addresses were while traveling and possibly at home.

Now that someone has contacted me I will have a talk with them. The email does say they would like information as they realize that trust can be lost and might not be able to be fully rebuilt. That was the right answer to give. Much better than most companies give.

[TECENG]

Again, the company either knows or should have known. Regardless, they're accountable, imo.

I'm not trying to protect anyone here, just trying to give people the benefit of the doubt. How could a company know exactly what their employees are doing 100% of the time? Should they hire an IT person to sift through corporate emails one-by-one to find any potential wrong-doing? Or should you put a certain amount of trust in your people? I know I have better ways of spending my time than looking over the shoulders of my employees all the time.

Again, I'm not taking sides here, I'm just sayin...

[JonSidneyB]

I got a message from all parties involved finally. We may have a case where it is an employee making posts about something they know about that they happen to have with a post in particular that was promotion but they might not have realized it was in bad forum as they sound line an ordinary owner.

What created some concern is I frequently get message that were not intended for me where I know that some post bumping was done here and there to keep things a bit more visible. This person might not have known how it looks on our end. I was going to do some serious digging to see if I could find them talking as an owner to another ID associated with the company. After getting a message from this person I don't think I will find anything like that. While I do not know if this is the case it could certainly be just an employee not in seeing how it could appear from this end as I have seen a bunch of odd things.

It does not mean we don't have a shill problem as we do. Usually we see this with smaller companies and it is quite often the owner doing it or someone in charge of marketing. Like I said I don't know for sure at this point but the explanations I have gotten are plausible. Some others are not so plausible.

There are quite a few manufacturers that do visit the forums or at least their employees that come out here quite a bit and have been unusually quite about their products. One company that comes to mind that seems to be too good about appearances. Since this is a positive thing I will mention them, several employees of Leatherman visit the forums and not once have I seen the remotest appearance of anything that with the wildest imagination be seen as promotion looking like a common owner.

I reacted to this one as it was one of the larger companies I have seen that looked to be doing this. Some of it looks awkward but is possibly innocent as Tom has mentioned.

[primal]

Now that someone has contacted me I will have a talk with them. The email does say they would like information as they realize that trust can be lost and might not be able to be fully rebuilt. That was the right answer to give. Much better than most companies give.

Right on, Jon!

Respect is always key.

Good luck!