Holster options for a .22 target pistol.

[Pointman]

I'm going to do some run-n-gun exercises in teh coming weeks and will be using my Ruger 10/22 and my S&W 22A for them, but I was curious if anyone has any ideas on a possible holster for the target pistol? Possibly something I can slap on a MOLLE chest rig...

[P35]

Bianchi used to make a leather holster for the 10/22, as for MOLLE, you will probably have to go with a generic nylon of some sort

[warren55]

As a range safety officer, I'd like to ask a few questions.

First is this a supervised lesson, or something you are doing on your own?

I personally curtailed any move and shoot drills without instructor supervision, mainly because it's dangerous to yourself and others if you should trip and have a negligent discharge go off in an unsafe direction, or in to a body part.

Advanced classes actually are trained in weapon safety, retention and shooting while moving backwards away from the target(s) then train falling over an obstacle while moving backwards. However, it still presents a real safety issue, and is taught initially with unloaded firearms. You can get the wind knocked out of you just by falling, no one needs to shoot themselves in the foot or leg too.

The second issue is, without an instructor, you can't see what you are doing right or wrong. Are you using cover, hesitating, or presenting yourself as a target. Even little things like are you doing the "duck walk" smoothly or bobbing up and down. Are your arms tucked correctly, etc. You'd never know unless there's trained supervision who can spot errors. Doing it by yourself or with peers is counterproductive. We sometimes use multiple video cameras to closely watch technique after the range session.

You also need to have a cell phone, the name and address of the range written on a card, and a triage kit on a nearby table. Every range session should have this important gear. You don't need EMTs standing by, but you do need someone to call 911 and someone else to stop the bleeding.

Why are you using 22 rimfire weapons? They have been shown as a poor substitute for centerfire weapons. The military has tried to use them and failed. You won't get the tactile sensations of noise and recoil, but you'll train muscle memory to a different reaction. When you change over to centerfire weapons there is a different dynamic to overcome. Shot placement won't be the same and flinching soon develops.

There's also the question of dressing up in MOLLE equipment to shoot 22's.
You're definitely going to get some looks, and maybe be asked to leave.
I see quite a few Blackwater operators and even more spec-ops snipers at the public range, just keeping sharp waiting for their callout.

Is this just to "play"? If so I would caution you against even attempting to try. It's very dangerous. If you are part of a CRT/SRT team, or participate in 3 gun or tactical matches, then do it so that you will get the most out of it. Do it correctly.

[saniterra]

+ 1 on Warren55's input. Don't play with guns, even .22's. That being said and hoping that you knew this already, I will say that there are not many holsters for target .22's. I have a Ruger MKIII Target Elite (long barrel) for which Ruger either makes or sells a leather holster. However, mine has an ATN holographic site on it, which is not large, but essentially rules out most holsters. I ended up buying a generic nylon cross chest holster with a flap and meant for large high caliber scoped hunting handguns. It's far from perfect, but it was the best I could find. Lots of low end holster manufacturers make a similar model.

[Roadkill Bill]

Check out Ace Case.

[Pointman]

I appreciate the concern...feel the love of the EDC Community =)

Its not really formal in terms of us paying some Magpul Cowboys to show us how to look cool if that's what you mean. It is however a group of 7 which includes a range safety officer from Miami, Fl, 2 ex-military (one served recently in Iraq, the other was a in Korea and also was a safety officer at the Camp Blanding MOUT center, a gunsmith of 20 years and 3 regular guys like myself....all past 30 years old. Most of us are past that "let's do crazy stuff" phase...mostly anyways Biggest concern I would have is all these guys thinking that their way is better than another...but that is not rare from gung-ho types.

After making a little trip to the library and to local gun shops, the advice has certainly been mixed in terms of using .22 for training. While it's true that it does not provide the recoil and ballistics of whatever you plan to substitute it for (in my case 9mm and 7.62x39), it does allow you to work on a concentrate on trigger pulls, breathing and other key skills towards becoming a proficient shooter. The choice of the .22 was also based on price, while ammo is not too bad in my area in both terms of price and availability, .22 seemed like a reasonable option. I've known of a Miami-Dade police officer who would train with a HK P30 pellet pistol for just those reasons...it's one thing to be in a static posture and shoot...it's another to do it after you have been in pursuit. I would even consider the pellet pistol option but since we dont really have any, and we all have .22s...why not?

the only part in which I'll disagree with you is in terms of showing up to a range and having a loadout to shoot .22. I've seen it in the past both in Florida and Ohio and there has never been any issue....no one kicked out. The safety officer said he has seen plenty of guys coming up with Rugers, Marlins, and Savage .22s in the past and as long as they listen to and follow the safety briefings, then there is no problem. The problem he has is people thinking that it's a .22, so it's not a "real" firearm and then act careless with them...if you treat a .22 as if it were a .223, then you are doing your part.

Regardless...way to throw my simple question WWAAYYY off topic =) I just wanted to know of some holster options for a S&W22A. In the long run, I did find a local gunsmith who can build me a Kydex one with molle attachment points, for about $60...so I'll look into it and see if it's worth it.

[warren55]

the only part in which I'll disagree with you is in terms of showing up to a range and having a loadout to shoot .22. I've seen it in the past both in Florida and Ohio and there has never been any issue....no one kicked out.

Maybe it's because I'm from Georgia, if you come to the range dressed like that the laughter would be louder than the gunfire.
I see plenty of guys make believe they're, snipers, operators, swat, all dressed up for Halloween. Unless they have prior authorization to conduct a formal training exercise, no list of credentials will allow them to move and shoot.
It would be incredulous, not to mention reckless, in this litigious society, for a range to allow just anyone to shoot as they pleased and become a danger to themselves or others.
With the "Magpul Cowboys", schools like LFI, Gunsite or Tactical Solutions, instructors guide your training in a controlled environment, you are at a range specifically designed for this type of instruction, not local range for target shooting.

As for going off topic, real conversations stray because of what is said. I would not want anyone here to believe that this was a reasonable thing to do with firearms, and attempt to emulate it.

Back on topic, the reason you cannot find a holster to your specifications is because no one uses this gun for serious training, as such there is no market for one. You really have no choice but to have a custom holster made specifically for you.

[Pointman]

I think we are having alot of friction because we may have different ideas of what my group is planning on doing. For some reason, I think that what you think we are doing is something like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJdmnMtpAwI

In fact, what we are doing is something almost identical to this (I know 2 of the guys who planned the whole thing are big fans of this guy):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=at8hY15dnNc
or
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6Nqj3dRcsE

We are not doing this at a public, or private range, but on a 60 acre private farm in Kentucky and I feel quite safe in the way that they are getting things organized. The only difference is that we are only doing one shooter at a time where these guys look like they go in pairs. Again, you'll also see some .22s being used here. I know you have qualms about using rimfire as a training tool, but I belive that is why there is such a large market of full-size .22 weapon and conversion kits available.

While you are right in that there is no holster for my .22 pistol, it is because my model in particular does not have one...but the same goes for the Beretta NEOS or the Walther SP22. Had I bought a Ruger Mark III (the Ruger Variant of my pistol) I would have been in better shape. I'll consider the options for holstering my .22 and take it from there. I guess it should be said that I too dont condone anyone doing ANYTHING with firearms. I dont know what you have, who you use them with or where you fire them...and those things are dangerous ;) dont be like me...I'm apparently reckless and stupid. :)

[warren55]

I have no animosity toward you, I just don't want to see anyone hurt unnecessarily.

If I said I was going to shoot a whiskey glass off my wife's head, like William Tell, (google William Burroughs) and asked what brand name gun I should use, I hope someone would try to warn me of the possible repercussions.

The youtube video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=at8hY15dnNc
is just what I was afraid of, and another by "Nutnfancy",
"RunNGun" Concept Introduced: Tactical Carbine Practice
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AN9iR...eature=related
shows a blatant disregard for safety.
Not only does one shooter advance while the other is firing behind him, but you can see the muzzles pointed at each other while they are posing for the camera! The second video shows a shooter clearing a jam and the muzzle points downrange in the direction of the other shooter.

It's gun store commandos like these, that make my job difficult, and why I interrupted your topic to caution you and others not to emulate them.

Shooting one at a time is only logical. It's the unforeseen problems that make it dangerous.

Recently, I investigated a GSW incident. It involved 3 shooters (from the nearby military base) shooting at steel targets at 100yds that put one in the hospital for a wound sustained from a ricochet and another of the group received minor a wound from an earlier ricochet. They did not know the difference between mild (soft) steel and the correct hardened armor steel type targets. Their bullets dug pockets into the steel and turned their projectiles 180 back at them. Their game looked good at the time, but fell short on necessary information.

It's all too common for accidents like this to happen because of oversights in what appears to be safe, but isn't.

Accredited shooting schools, their lawyers and insurance company, have thought through a great many accident scenarios, not only because people might get hurt, they don't want to loose everything in civil litigation should the worst happen. That's the liability facing the owner of the property you are going to use. His tacit approval of your groups action puts his property at risk. (google Nick Hogan)

I dont know what you have, who you use them with or where you fire them.

Here: http://www.gpstc.org/

[Rob72]

After making a little trip to the library and to local gun shops, the advice has certainly been mixed in terms of using .22 for training.

Poor, very poor, sources for training advice. If the "instructors" express conflict over the "right/best" way of doing things, its worse yet. Trainers adopt a given skill set so that all instructors on the range know what to watch for from students and know what to expect of each other.

Back in the day, I received instruction from some BTDT guys, but it was one-on-one, and delivered as, "this is what I was taught, this is what works for me- now build from this." Just be careful...