Do I Need Laser or Tritium on My EDC?

[bsquared]

I have a full size semi-auto for home defense...if I get something smaller for an edc do I need to spend the extra $ for tritium night sights on a kahr or a crimson trace grip on an lcr? I just don't see the need for htose aids as I expect any encounter to be at short range.

[solocanoe]

its up to you, it's really about as personal as you are and choice of what you choose to carry...brand, caliber, rev. vs pistol, etc...

all that said...if you ever want to order the free CD (recommended) from Crimson Trace...it may forever change your perception. You'd be hard pressed to find any holdouts amoung the well known gun writers/trainers/academies who wouldn't recommend a laser for a self defense handgun.

It just gives you too many advantages. It's not a crutch, it has to be trained with...but it makes possible accurate shots on target that just couldn't be done without a laser.

Around cover, under, off hand, not being able to obtain an accurate sight picture alignment, a huge number of incidents occur in low light/no light...yet most train in a static pose on a daylight range...etc...

now, I am sure others still feel lasers are not something to have...that's why you always say "everyone has to choose"...but seriously...at least order the free CD. ;)

[Jean]

Lot of guy miss in short range encounters. The smaller weapons may also lead you to consider a change in technique for which the lasers are more suited then tritium sights. I would fire the weapon a significant number of times from various stances before making the decision, despite the modest savings you would see from buying the sights/laser as a package.

[MartinTravels]

I can't fathom the reasons why somebody would not want laser sights on their weapon. To me, it is an absolute no brainer.

I just installed Crimson Trace Laser grips on my Kel Tec P32. Many people would scoff at putting a laser sight on such a small short range weapon. But If I ever need to pull the thing out, I need every edge I can get. Laser sights are a HUGE adventage. The benefits far outweigh the cons.

Benefits:

1) Night Shooting Capability
2) Extra Intimidation Factor
3) Shooting behind cover
4) Shooting Offhand
5) Shooting with your non-dominant hand
6) Less of a gun-like print in your pocket
7) Shooting with impaired vision (blurry, one eye, etc)...
8) Laser can temporarily blind the person you at shooting at
9) Great tracking on a moving target
10) You now EDC a laser pointer also


Cons:

1) Expensive
2) May malfunction
3) May develop bad shooting habits if you train improperly

Worst case scenerio, your laser sight doesn't work. What are you left with? Just a regular gun like everyone else. If you can afford it, GET A LASER (and get tritium sights also)!

[Rob72]

I have a full size semi-auto for home defense...if I get something smaller for an edc do I need to spend the extra $ for tritium night sights on a kahr or a crimson trace grip on an lcr? I just don't see the need for htose aids as I expect any encounter to be at short range.

As noted, it will depend much on you and your training practices. My personal preference is for an XS Standard trit front, with a wide-notch no-trit rear.

I have lasers, but they are a "confirmation" more than a sighting tool, per se. I do wear glasses, so in that context, yeah, it would probably be more of a primary.

Don't get wrapped up in the "close range" stuff. Odds are, you'll never need a defensive weapon, but if you do you're already (comparatively) a statistical outlier. It would suck to be on outlier for an even smaller sampling, without the means or training to respond to the demands of the situation, wouldn't it?

[revs]

I am looking at getting a laser on my Glock 19. The reason for me is, I wear contacts/glasses. If someone were to break in to my house at night, I would grab the pistol and run, not waiting to put in my contacts. Being near sighted, the sights would be difficult to make out to make certain my aim. But that nice red dot would stand out. I know I can see the red dot in the dark, tried it with a laser pointer

[Exmasonite]

if you are able to afford it, go for the laser.

but before you do that, i'd make sure you have either a weapon mounted light or a good flashlight and train to use it in your offhand.

for one, you always want to be able to properly evaluate the target.

From a legal standpoint, it's safer to have the light even if you don't use it. If you don't have the light, a sly attorney will make the case that you couldn't properly identify your target and in the wrong.

[bsquared]

all good responses...all well thought out...all appreciated. i think a dot is in order. thanks all.

[MartinTravels]

So I gotta know... what gun are you going leaning toward purchasing? Have you handled/shot any yet? I've had my eye on the Kahr PM9 for a while; if I didn't already carry a P32 I would highly consider the PM9.

[tradja]

I am looking at getting a laser on my Glock 19.  The reason for me is, I wear contacts/glasses.  If someone were to break in to my house at night, I would grab the pistol and run, not waiting to put in my contacts.  Being near sighted, the sights would be difficult to make out to make certain my aim.  But that nice red dot would stand out.  I know I can see the red dot in the dark, tried it with a laser pointer 

A few thoughts:  if you can't see and visually confirm your target, you'd best not be firing on it.  I am very nearsighted as well, but I can always focus on that front sight and get pretty good hits without my glasses.  If I don't have my glasses on, I can see the front sight 2 feet from my eyeballs better than a blurry red dot on a blurry target 25 ft away.

At a 4-day defensive handgun course I attended, the one guy who brought a laser couldn't get his shots off on the timed targets -- he was too busy trying to locate and chase the dot around.  At 3yds, 5yds, 7yds, 10yds, and 15yrds, it was all the same.  Followup shots were hopeless.  The shots he did get off in time were all over the place.  His night shoots were a circus (well, maybe more like a disco)   On Day 3, the instructors finally convinced him to turn it off and focus on the front sight.  Instantly, his groups were on-paper and he could get all his shots off before the targets turned away.  It was pretty dramatic. 

You'd be hard pressed to find any holdouts amoung the well known gun writers/trainers/academies who wouldn't recommend a laser for a self defense handgun.

I've trained at Front Sight, one of the largest schools by attendance, and InSights, a popular NW regional school.  My Front Sight instructors explicitly discouraged lasers and the InSights instructor mostly dismissed them as a gimmick.

A buddy of mine doesn't have much time or interest to train, formally or informally.  He got a 642 and a P3AT and couldn't put groups on a pizza box at 5yds.  Of course, the problem must be the lack of a laser, so he put a laser on both guns.  Same result, except now he preceeded each shot with several seconds of waving the pistol around to try to find the dot.  It's touchy for men to advise other men, so I just waited.  Eventually he asked me what he was doing wrong.  I gently coached him through 3 minutes of dry fire drills to address his significant flinch, and his groups shrank onto the target.  I suggested that he use the lasers for dry-fire practice to watch for flinch, but mostly to turn them off and focus on the front sight.  When I shoot with his guns, I get faster and more accurate shots (especially followups) with the lasers off.  MartinTravels has a few interesting points that I haven't considered before - I should try non-dominant hand with and without the lasers.

To be frank, the $350 my buddy spent on lasers would have yielded better results if he had spent it on a good multiday class.  Time, family, interest, and travel were restrictions in his case, and I understand that. 

I'm unconvinced by most of the purported "non-line-of-sight" advantages of lasers.  If I have eyes on the target, then I can put the front sight in that line of sight.  There are probably rare exceptions to this that would make a laser valuable, but none that I've encountered in my training or at-home evaluations.  My last rifle class spent a lot of time on firing ARs around corners exposing almost none of your body or melon.  Really neat exercises and results, and eye-opening.

I don't doubt that the CT DVD is very convincing.  Most advertising is.  I mean to get around to ordering one sometime.  With both my buddy and the guy at the class (as well as other shooters at the range), it just seems like people spend WAY too much time and effort searching for and fighting the laser, overcompensating and jerking it around.  I haven't observed it being any kind of "extra edge", but merely a distraction.  This might not be the deal, but it is my observation so far.  Sure, you can tell me it's a training issue.  I'd like the opportunity to observe an Average Joe (vs, say, a CT employee) who has trained with a laser.

I don't have a light on my pistols but I have trained a good bit with the Harries technique and like it.  A light on a defensive handgun makes sense as far as positive target identification.  I really don't like that it requires pointing your gun at the target in order to identify the target in the first place, though.  I do like that the gun has a flashlight attached, so you can use your normal two-hand firing grip and you don't have one tool without the other.  However, this is an EDC forum, so I reckon there's no shortage of good flashlights on us.   ;)

I haven't been too blown away by night sights yet but want to shoot with them more.  If it's light enough to identify the target, then I can still see the big white dot on my stock Glock front sights.  If it's too dark to identify the target, then I have no business firing on it.  If I'm using a flashlight to light up the target, then my front sight stands out in pretty sharp silouhette.  In timed drills, I've found that I can identify, acquire, and get good shots on a target using just a handheld light with Harries or Rogers ("cigar") techniques.  I'd love to try the drills with a weapon-mounted light and night sights.  I bet the grip advantage makes a difference.

Of any of the common bolt-on gimmicks, night sights are probably the most valuable, with no disadvantage.  They're not even that expensive.  If you want to hit, you should be looking at your front sight anyway.  It might as well be easy to see.

I know that these are minority opinions when it comes to lasers, but just wanted to throw them out there.  A low-light shooting class would be a great way to research this question.  It was for me.  Another good way to find out would be to get a laser and measure if it helps YOU get multiple shots on target quickly in a variety of stances and lighting conditions, or at least quicker than without.  You can always sell it.