Speaking Bark Riverese for request lists.

[JonSidneyB]

I am going to see if we can have an explanation for the terms that Bark River uses and I am going to try and learn the format that requests are made in to create the least amount of confusion.

I will be editing this post over and over again until we have a clear easy method of doing this. :)

I did learn a new word today. Frames.

Frames: Are what separates a spacer or bolster from the rest of the handle. A knife can be with or without frames if desired. Of course with out a spacer or a bolster there will not be a frame.

http://barkriverknives.com/albums2/album78/PSK_Maroon_Linen_Wt_Liners_Blk_Spcr_Mosaics.jpg
This knife has no frame around the black spacer.

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o319/jonsidneyb/CS09MaroonLinenBlkLinSpcrBlkLinM.jpg
This knife has a white frame around the black spacer.

I don't know all the available frame colors yet.

Liner: A knife can have a liner or can be without one. This is up to the requester. It is a fiber material that goes under the handle slab. It is made from a vulcanized fiber material.

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o319/jonsidneyb/Gunny_Grn_Canvas_R_L_Top.jpg
The red color you see between the green handle and the steel of the knife is a liner.

Liners can be black, blue, white, red, What colors am I forgetting?

Spacers: These are diaginal pieces of material different than the main handle. It may or may not have a fram depending on what the requester wants.

http://barkriverknives.com/albums2/album49/CS09_AIM_72dpi.jpg
This knife does not have a spacer.

http://barkriverknives.com/albums2/album49/CS09_AIM_Jade_Spacer_72dpi.jpg
This knife has Jade Malachite Spacers with white frames.

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o319/jonsidneyb/Gunny_DIB_2_Turq_Spcrs_KSF.jpg
This knife has two spacers with red frames.

I do not know all the possible materials for spacers yet.

Bolster: I don't think I have sold a single knife with a bolster yet. Lets see if I can explain what it is. A knife may or may not have a bolster, it is up to the requester. A bolster is a different material than the main handle just before the blade. (I will add a picture soon). A bolster can be made of metal, micarta, horn and a variety of other materials

[greyhound352]

Great thread Jon, maybe a section on types of pins could be added.

[jester02k]

Hey Jon I like the thread Been digging this morning
hers a pic on the Bolstershttp://www.blackcatservices.net/pics/barkriver/PSSambarIvBolCap-2%20edited.jpg

[jester02k]

Pins
http://www.blackcatservices.net/pics/barkriver/Pins.jpg

[capitalized]

This poor thread has been sitting here untouched for months. I'd like to spark it back up...

I'll end up restating some stuff said above, not because I think I can say it better, but because I want to try and consolidate everything as much as possible.

Here's what I know as far as modifiable options on Bark Rivers. First, I think they are all related to handles. I can't think of a Bark River knife that could be made with a different steel upon request. Some knives are made in various steels - like the Bravo-1, which has a CPM154 and a A2 version - but requesting a Bravo-1 in 52-100 steel isn't an option (probably because it would add variance and thus cost to the water-jetting batch process).

If I am wrong, and different steels can be requested, I'll have to rethink my request strategy.

Okay, so what handle options are modifiable?

- Materials: Handles can be made in a staggering array of natural and synthetic materials. The list is long and probably changes over time but some options are always present. Canvas micarta, linen micarta and G-10 are almost always available in a range of colors. Woods, horn, and bone vary a bit, probably based on Bark River's stock. There are also some other synthetic options like carbon fiber, fibermascus, and paper micarta that may be available.

- Finish: Synthetic handles can be glossy or matte finished. Glossy is, well, glossy looking. And it seems a bit slicker (I assume this is because the finish is applied using a finer sanding grit). Matte finish is duller looking, but the texture is much more prominent and it seems a bit grippier from my personal experience. I think this option only applies to micarta and G-10 handles (perhaps carbon fiber too?).

- Spacer: A handle material added between the main material (usually in a stripe pattern). I think any handle material can be used as a spacer but whether Bark River WILL use any handle material for a spacer is another question. Another option is the Moonglow spacer, which is a glow-in-the-dark material, along with some different stones (turquoise, as shown in Jon's original post), bone materials, and other fancy stuff. There may be multiple spacers on a knife (also as shown above).

- Frame: The material on both sides of the spacer. I think frames are made from the same material as liners and would thus be available in the same range of color options.

- Liner: A thin plate of material sandwiched between the tang and the handle material. From what I have seen, liners can be white, black, blue, red, and yellow but others may be out there.

- Pins: The round metal bars that attach the handles to the tang. They may be bolts or pins, brass or silver (nickel silver, I think, or steel), hollow or solid, plain or mosaic (a pattern of smaller pins that compose the larger pin). Not sure how wide the range of modifications can be here, but the latter two options seem to be always modifiable.

- Bolsters: A bolster is basically a spacer located between the main handle material and the blade. It can serve a range of purposes (a guard, extra space for the hand, strengthening the blade/handle junction, purely aesthetic, etc) and I'm not sure when they are available or what materials they come in (brass and, I can't tell what the silver one is - nickel silver or steel?). I don't know if bolsters can be requested for every model or not, and they don't seem to ever be wood or synthetic materials, just metal.

- Ramp: An upswept portion of the spine located directly above the handle, for increased handling during specific cutting operations. This is a semi-handle option that can be modified (it's an ergonomic feature so it can be argued either way, I think). The few models that have ramps (the Gunny and the Bravo line) are available "rampless" upon request.

- Jimping: Jimping are grooves cut into the spine of the knife directly above the handle, for increased traction when placing the thumb on the spine. I mention them because as far as I know they are not modifiable. If a knife comes standard with jimping, then you get jimping. If it doesn't, you'll have to add it yourself or possibly send it to Bark River for modification.

Most, if not all, Bark River models have standardized options so the minimum request would be the handle material.

So if you asked for a "Gunny with Black Canvas Micarta" you'd get one with a ramp, the standard pins, and glossy finish, with no spacers, liners, bolster, or any other add-on.

A highly specific request would look like the following:

"Gunny with matte red and black linen micarta handles, black linen micarta spacers with red frames, red liners, mosaic pins, and no ramp."

Again, I'm not sure if you could add "brass bolster" to that list or not as I don't know if bolsters can be added to everything.

From looking at prices, I think this is a fairly accurate statement: the more you embellish your knife, the more expensive it will be. But some things, to my understanding, don't change the price (like picking matte over glossy handles or choosing to have no ramp).

Also, natural handle materials seem to always be more expensive than synthetic ones, and basic synthetic materials are cheaper than colored/multicolored or exotic ones. Black canvas and black linen micartas are cheapest, I think, followed by the color variations of these two materials.

Hopefully someone with more knowledge than me will step in and correct my errors and clarify anything I'm not sure about.

[copierguy_mobile]

I agree that this thread is a great idea and has the potential to help reduce errors on custom order knives and make Jon's life a lot simpler in the process.

I learned a couple of things today that might be worthy of this thread:

The material used for liners (and, I assume frames too) is .39" thick and you can have more than one pair of liners per knife. That would allow for stacks of liners for decorative reasons (contrasting colors) or to bulk up the scales on thinner knives.

There are pics of some beautiful knives over on Knife forums (http://knifeforums.com/forums/showtopic.php?tid/873112/tp/1/) with liner stacks.

-Greg

[capitalized]

I agree that this thread is a great idea and has the potential to help reduce errors on custom order knives and make Jon's life a lot simpler in the process.

I learned a couple of things today that might be worthy of this thread:

The material used for liners (and, I assume frames too) is .39" thick and you can have more than one pair of liners per knife. That would allow for stacks of liners for decorative reasons (contrasting colors) or to bulk up the scales on thinner knives.

There are pics of some beautiful knives over on Knife forums (http://knifeforums.com/forums/showtopic.php?tid/873112/tp/1/) with liner stacks.

-Greg

Good point. I have seen bolster stacks too, especially on the custom 2009 bowies. The options with the liner/frame/bolster materials and combinations is pretty broad.

[myke]

Any idea if a knife ordered "rampless" would get jimping to make up for the lack of ramp?

[capitalized]

Rampless knives do not get jimping. I honestly don't like jimping and prefer not to have it at all, so to me this is a good thing.

If you wanted jimping on a rampless knife you could probably custom-order it, but I think you'll probably end up paying extra, while the rampless option usually costs the same as the "ramped" option.

[Tori]

Learning Bark River"ese"

Every model of Bark River Knives are available in a stunning array of natural and synthetic materials. When choosing a handle type, you can pick various materials from micarta to G-10, as well as natural materials such as wood or exotic horn. From time to time, synthetic options may become available like carbon fiber and fibermascus. There is also the option to choose from a glossy or matte finish.

The buyer is given the option to choose from a variety of pins that can be incorporated in the handle such as brass, hollow, or mosaic. Pins are the round metal bars that attach the handle to the blade, and are another way to customize your knife. The customer is also able to choose their own liners, spacers, frames, ramps, and bolsters. With so many possibilities to choose from, it is safe to say that you may request a knife that has never been produced before.

With so many variations, you might not be able to find the exact Bark River configuration you want. The request lists are a good way to get them made your way.

Request List Q & A

Q: How do request lists work:
A: If you want to place a request on the request list you simply post what you want on the request list thread. I will provide links to this shortly.

Q: How long will it take for a requested knife??
A: Well the truth is I can't tell you. Bark River makes a couple of models at a time throughout the year. Some models have been made less than once a year, while others are made every year, and some are manufactured several times in a year.

Q. How do you know the price for a specific knife??
A: I cannot always give you the exact answer to that as material costs change. I can tell you that the price that I put on the knife will be the lowest that Bark River will authorize me to put on it. When you request a knife you don't put any money down. When the knife shows that they are in assembly I will contact people letting them know how to get their knife.

Q: How do you get added to an existing request list?
A: Just post what you would like in the appropriate thread. I have not set up the request threads to notify me when someone posts in them. If there is not an existing thread for the knife you are looking for, simply post a request for a request list in this thread.

Speaking Bark River"ese" for Request Lists:

Frames:

A frame is the material that separates a spacer or bolster from the rest of the handle. A knife can be with or without frames, depending on what the purchaser desires. If you choose no spacer or bolster, there will be no frame.

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o319/jonsidneyb/CS09MaroonLinenBlkLinSpcrBlkLinM.jpg
This knife has a white frame around the black spacer.

Liner:

A knife can be with or without a liner. The liner is the thin plate of fibrous material that goes under the handle slab.

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o319/jonsidneyb/Gunny_Grn_Canvas_R_L_Top.jpg
The red color you see between the green handle and the steel of the knife is a liner.

Spacers:

Spacers are the diagonal pieces of material (usually in a stripe pattern) on the main handle. A spacer may or may not have a frame, depending on what the purchaser prefers.

http://barkriverknives.com/albums2/album49/CS09_AIM_Jade_Spacer_72dpi.jpg
This knife has a Jade Malachite Spacer with white frames.

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o319/jonsidneyb/Gunny_DIB_2_Turq_Spcrs_KSF.jpg
This knife has two blue spacers with red frames.

Pins:

Pins are the round metal bars that attach the handles to the blade. They may be brass or silver, hollow or solid, and plain or mosaic.

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o319/jonsidneyb/A%20Bark%20River%20PSK/PSK_Splt_Mpl_Mosaic_KSF.jpg
This is a PSK with brass mosaic pins.

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o319/jonsidneyb/A%20Bark%20River%20PSK/PSK_BlackHollow_Matte.jpg
This is a black PSK, matte finish, with hollow pins.

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o319/jonsidneyb/RW_GGJ_Black_Liners.jpg
This is a sample of a ghost green jade knife with silver solid pins.

Bolsters:

A bolster is a spacer located between the main handle material and the blade. It serves a range of purposes such as acting as a guard, giving extra hand space, strengthening the blade/handle, or simply for adding to the cosmetic appearance.

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o319/jonsidneyb/Bark%20River%20Little%20Creek/images.jpg
This is a Canadian Special with a bolster.

Ramps:

A ramp is an up swept portion of the spine located directly above the handle, and generally costs the same as the rampless styles. It increases handling during specific cutting operations. The Gunny and the Bravo are the only models that have ramps, but they are also available in "rampless," depending on the buyer's preference.

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o319/jonsidneyb/Bark%20River%20Little%20Creek/BA111WCOCO.jpg
Here is an example of a Little Creek knife with a ramp.

Everyone knows the different handle types you can choose from, but just in case, here are a few examples:

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o319/jonsidneyb/A%20Bark%20River%20Aurora/Aurora_Midnite_Tiger_G_10_600.jpg
Midnite Tiger

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o319/jonsidneyb/R%20Bark%20River%20Bravo-1/B_1_Burgundy_Elder_Burlsized.jpg
Burgundy Elder Burl

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o319/jonsidneyb/R%20Bark%20River%20Bravo-1/B_1_Emergency_Yellow_G_10sized.jpg
Emergency Yellow

AND MANY, MANY MORE!!!!

Specific Ways to Order:

Now that the different characteristics of the knife have been explained, here are some specific examples of what to ask for when you are requesting your knife:

Example 1) Gunny A2, white bone, mosaic pins, turquoise spacer, black frames, red liner, rampless with bolster.

Example 2) Bravo 1, Blaze Orange G-10, hollow pins, two glow spacers with no frames, no liner, rampless.

Example 3) Aurora CPM3V, Blue & Black Matte, solid silver pins, black liner.[/SIZE]

Example 4) Pro-Scalpel, Black Canvas, Micarta, mosaic pins, one glow spacer, white frames, bolstered, and ramps.

***Since the Gunny and Bravo can be ordered with ramps, it is helpful to specify if you would desire ramp or rampless.

These requests should be put in the Request List of your preferred model as a reply to the previous thread.

I hope this makes things a little easier for everyone!!

[Tori]

This poor thread has been sitting here untouched for months. I'd like to spark it back up...

I'll end up restating some stuff said above, not because I think I can say it better, but because I want to try and consolidate everything as much as possible.

Here's what I know as far as modifiable options on Bark Rivers. First, I think they are all related to handles. I can't think of a Bark River knife that could be made with a different steel upon request. Some knives are made in various steels - like the Bravo-1, which has a CPM154 and a A2 version - but requesting a Bravo-1 in 52-100 steel isn't an option (probably because it would add variance and thus cost to the water-jetting batch process).

If I am wrong, and different steels can be requested, I'll have to rethink my request strategy.

Okay, so what handle options are modifiable?

- Materials: Handles can be made in a staggering array of natural and synthetic materials. The list is long and probably changes over time but some options are always present. Canvas micarta, linen micarta and G-10 are almost always available in a range of colors. Woods, horn, and bone vary a bit, probably based on Bark River's stock. There are also some other synthetic options like carbon fiber, fibermascus, and paper micarta that may be available.

- Finish: Synthetic handles can be glossy or matte finished. Glossy is, well, glossy looking. And it seems a bit slicker (I assume this is because the finish is applied using a finer sanding grit). Matte finish is duller looking, but the texture is much more prominent and it seems a bit grippier from my personal experience. I think this option only applies to micarta and G-10 handles (perhaps carbon fiber too?).

- Spacer: A handle material added between the main material (usually in a stripe pattern). I think any handle material can be used as a spacer but whether Bark River WILL use any handle material for a spacer is another question. Another option is the Moonglow spacer, which is a glow-in-the-dark material, along with some different stones (turquoise, as shown in Jon's original post), bone materials, and other fancy stuff. There may be multiple spacers on a knife (also as shown above).

- Frame: The material on both sides of the spacer. I think frames are made from the same material as liners and would thus be available in the same range of color options.

- Liner: A thin plate of material sandwiched between the tang and the handle material. From what I have seen, liners can be white, black, blue, red, and yellow but others may be out there.

- Pins: The round metal bars that attach the handles to the tang. They may be bolts or pins, brass or silver (nickel silver, I think, or steel), hollow or solid, plain or mosaic (a pattern of smaller pins that compose the larger pin). Not sure how wide the range of modifications can be here, but the latter two options seem to be always modifiable.

- Bolsters: A bolster is basically a spacer located between the main handle material and the blade. It can serve a range of purposes (a guard, extra space for the hand, strengthening the blade/handle junction, purely aesthetic, etc) and I'm not sure when they are available or what materials they come in (brass and, I can't tell what the silver one is - nickel silver or steel?). I don't know if bolsters can be requested for every model or not, and they don't seem to ever be wood or synthetic materials, just metal.

- Ramp: An upswept portion of the spine located directly above the handle, for increased handling during specific cutting operations. This is a semi-handle option that can be modified (it's an ergonomic feature so it can be argued either way, I think). The few models that have ramps (the Gunny and the Bravo line) are available "rampless" upon request.

- Jimping: Jimping are grooves cut into the spine of the knife directly above the handle, for increased traction when placing the thumb on the spine. I mention them because as far as I know they are not modifiable. If a knife comes standard with jimping, then you get jimping. If it doesn't, you'll have to add it yourself or possibly send it to Bark River for modification.

Most, if not all, Bark River models have standardized options so the minimum request would be the handle material.

So if you asked for a "Gunny with Black Canvas Micarta" you'd get one with a ramp, the standard pins, and glossy finish, with no spacers, liners, bolster, or any other add-on.

A highly specific request would look like the following:

"Gunny with matte red and black linen micarta handles, black linen micarta spacers with red frames, red liners, mosaic pins, and no ramp."

Again, I'm not sure if you could add "brass bolster" to that list or not as I don't know if bolsters can be added to everything.

From looking at prices, I think this is a fairly accurate statement: the more you embellish your knife, the more expensive it will be. But some things, to my understanding, don't change the price (like picking matte over glossy handles or choosing to have no ramp).

Also, natural handle materials seem to always be more expensive than synthetic ones, and basic synthetic materials are cheaper than colored/multicolored or exotic ones. Black canvas and black linen micartas are cheapest, I think, followed by the color variations of these two materials.

Hopefully someone with more knowledge than me will step in and correct my errors and clarify anything I'm not sure about.

A big "thank you!" to 'capitalized' for providing everyone with such great information! We used a great deal of your input to help further condense this section of the forum. Your insight is much appreciated.