TSA Travel Warning

[RockyNomad]

I just returned to Denver from a trip to San Diego. On our departure from Denver my wife forgot to take her SAK Classic off her keychain. Oops. Fortunately it was only six bucks at Wally World. Now here is the other part to the story. I gave her a kubaton(like the one pictured below) over a year ago. I thought they were safe to have on the plane and she has traveled by air several times with it. This time she was stopped and they had to complete a report for carrying a weapon into a federal facility. I know it is more ominous looking than your standard kubaton but the knife simply got thrown away and they seemed to make a bigger deal over the kubaton. So, now we have to wait to see if there will be a warning, fine, or criminal charges. Either way, there is a chance she may now become "flagged" and will have to go through extra screening in the future. This was all according to TSA and Denver PD. They did mention the fact she was being cooperative was noted and will count for something. I had my police ID on me and told them I bought the kubaton for her. I'm hoping that will help too.

[StrayLight]

It looks like an angry icepick. Honestly, what response were you expecting from the screeners? It sounds like the TSA just did their jobs.

[Lugsalot]

I agree that the kubotan is rather conspicuous, and would contend that there are better substitutes out there, but I'm once again baffled by the "logic" behind the TSA's rules. Do they honestly think someone's going to hijack a plane with a small, blunt instrument? Ridiculous!



It sounds like the TSA just did their jobs.


You're right; they're paid to follow protocol that is rooted in hysterical legislative overreaction to an extremely rare event.

I'm convinced that the TSA is run by people who ask all the wrong "what if" questions.

[abarnhart]

They did mention the fact she was being cooperative was noted and will count for something.

Didn't I read that line in 1984? Pretty crazy stuff. I always go completely clean into airports. Nothing even close to a "weapon."

[StrayLight]

Do they honestly think someone's going to hijack a plane with a small, blunt instrument?

I disagree that it's a blunt instrument, it looks sharp and pointy to me.


...they're paid to follow protocol that is rooted in hysterical legislative overreaction to an extremely rare event. I'm convinced that the TSA is run by people who ask all the wrong "what if" questions.

While I concur with your assessment of airline security, the "protocol" is in place. Someone in law enforcement should not have been surprised at the reaction of the TSA.

[celler]

I have been very critical of the TSA in my posts on this board. I think they are poorly trained, arbitrary, capricious, and unable to follow their own rules. Even worse, they make up their own rules as they go. That said, that thing would not have passed my "smell test". If you want to carry a non-obtrusive and non "look at me, I'm a dangerous weapon" kubaton, pick up a cheap Cold Steel Sharkie. I've carried it through several state and federal courthouses and numerous airports without as much as a second look. I would reallly rethink the appearance of my EDC taking into account that the people doing the screening don't know you from Adam.

[ironraven]

My invisable kubaton, for almost 20 years- a Minimag. Inexpensive, the body is reasonably robust, and most of the techniques work.

[porkchop]

There is one line in RockyNomad's post that worries me more than the TSA confiscating a "weapon".


This time she was stopped and they had to complete a report for carrying a weapon into a federal facility.

Just out of curiosity, which part of the airport is owned by the federal government?

[Lugsalot]

I disagree that it's a blunt instrument, it looks sharp and pointy to me.


Okay, but let's not put too fine a point on it! :P



While I concur with your assessment of airline security, the "protocol" is in place.


I know "the law's the law," but it seems there's just no room for thinking anymore; discretion doesn't seem to factor into our new black-and-white world, where the only reason we know things are good or bad is because the lawmakers tell us so. I don't at all blame the ground-floor TSA workers for this--it's the policy makers and scare-mongering politicians who should be taken to task for this despicable trend in phasing out critical thinking. It's absolutely disgraceful.

The thing that really gets me is the slippery-slope argument used by the hand-wringing champions of this new world order: "Oh, dear! What if someone manages to use [item previously assumed to be innocuous] to commit a heinous act of violence? After all, the September 11th attackers were armed only with box-cutters! Think of the children! If it saves just ONE life..."

The ultimate conclusion (though I fear they will never reach it on their own) is that life is unpredictable, nothing is truly 100% safe and if you create a governing body to watch over us, who is going to watch THEM?



Someone in law enforcement should not have been surprised at the reaction of the TSA.


I still think it's ridiculous that they'd assume a fellow who's sworn to uphold the law and is trusted with a firearm would marry a woman who would/could hijack an airliner with a pointy, 6" aluminum rod. I know, I know, "pro forma" and all that, but it goes to show just how hopeless the TSA is when it comes to assessing potential threats (their wretched track-record when it comes to finding ACTUAL threats notwithstanding, of course).



Just out of curiosity, which part of the airport is owned by the federal government?


Excellent point. I'd be eager to hear their explanation of that one.

[jackknife]

My invisable kubaton, for almost 20 years- a Minimag. Inexpensive, the body is reasonably robust, and most of the techniques work.


And with the drop in conversion to LED, you don't even have to worry about the bulb breaking anymore! I just got back from flying to Florida, and they didn't even glance at my AA minimag.

[RockyNomad]

The TSA is a federal entity which is why they have jurisdiction and not the local PD. The Denver officer I spoke with is the one who told me it was considered "bringing a weapon into a federal facility" and is why the Feds are the ones who will make the decision regarding any type of discipline. My city doesn't have an airport so I am not as familiar with airport security laws and jurisdiction. From what I understand, ever since 9-11, airports are now considered federal facilities.

I agree in that my wife's kubaton is a lot more like a weapon, than the standard kubaton, but I bought her that model to be more effective. Yes, I concede that I should have put more thought into it before going into the airport but I didn't. She has taken that thing through security several times prior. TSA does not catch everything, that's for sure. I have made it all the way home with a zippo and a cigar cutter in my carry on.

Someone mentioned the pointy end. It is pointy but still quit blunt and you aren't going prick your finger on it getting it out of a purse or pocket.

My main goal was not to debate TSA rules/consistency, the obviousness of her kubaton as a weapon, or my own ignorance. I am just trying to help someone else from making the same mistake.

[greenLED]

Rocky - I hope all goes well for you and your wife.

[Lugsalot]

Rocky - I hope all goes well for you and your wife.


This is what I meant to say. Sorry about the rant.

[58sniper]

About 9 years ago, I flew from my local airport, Detroit Metro (DTW) to an small airport in Tulsa or some place in that area. The local guys let me through with a blunt ended kubaton type device on my key chain.

When I was at the tiny airport, preparing to come home, some 4000 year old guy looked at my like I'd killed the Pope, and went on this rant for 10 minutes about how it was a dangerous impact weapon, blah blah blah. At the time, I was a uniform officer. I stopped the old man, showed him my creds, explained it wasn't an impact weapon - it was a pain compliance device. I gave him my business card that showed I was an academy use of force instructor, and that I was also into martial arts and could argue that aspect of it as well. This old man didn't want to hear about it. So, I finally disposed of the 6 dollar piece, and went on my way. I only carried it because it made it easier to grab my keyring in my pocket. To this day, I carry a single handcuff key on a version identical to the one in the picture above.

Several years later, I got stopped at DTW because I had another one on my keyring (you're saying "this guy doesn't learn..."). They just made me put it into my carry on bag (??!!) and I went about my business. But shortly after, I started putting it into my checked luggage with my firearms, knives and other devices of mayhem.

[filedog]

I laugh every time I think of this. Probably 7 or 8 years ago, I was meeting someone at the boarding gate, and as I passed thru security, I remembered I was carrying a knife, probably a Delica. I showed it to the guard, who measured the blade across his palm (the blade was smaller) and he said..."OK, no problem, go ahead"!! ;D

[WillCAD]

Funny you should mention that; I read through the TSA prohibited items list recently and I did see kubotans on the list; in fact, there's a whole section of the list devoted to "martial arts & self defense items." Of course, the complete list is about 10 printed pages long, so it's understanable that not everyone reads through the whole thing before packing up for the airport.

I get to fly next week! Woohoo! No, I'm not being sarcastic - even with all the headaches and hassles, I still love to fly.



I know "the law's the law," but it seems there's just no room for thinking anymore; discretion doesn't seem to factor into our new black-and-white world...

I dunno, I think the average TSA flunkie at the gates, and their supervisors (Flunkievisors? Superflunkies?), do have a bit of discretionary power, but they always seem to err on the wrong side of it and consider anything that could possibly be used to cause a person harm to be a weapon, and forbidden. Which is ludicrous, because almost any innocuous object can be used to cause a person harm - whitness ironraven's point above about his MiniMag. Personally, I'm still a little surprised that sharp things like pens and pencils are allowed on planes, and flabergasted that they allow me to take my steel laptop locking cable aboard.



The thing that really gets me is the slippery-slope argument used by the hand-wringing champions of this new world order: "Oh, dear! What if someone manages to use [item previously assumed to be innocuous] to commit a heinous act of violence? After all, the September 11th attackers were armed only with box-cutters! Think of the children! If it saves just ONE life..."

I just love hearing people use that one! I've been itching for years to have someone use that one on me in person, so I can respond with a vehement, "NO! IT'S NOT WORTH IT!" Then, while they're aghast, I'll explain why - because tens of thousands of people have voluntarily given their lives since this country was founded to insure our personal freedoms, and taking those freedoms away makes the sacrifice of all of those tens of thousands of soldiers, sailors, marines, airmen, and even civilians totally worthless. So NO, it is not worth it to me to give up any of my Constitutionally guaranteed freedoms to save even ONE life, because those freedoms have COST a lot more lives to secure.

Ben Franklin said: Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Actually, he didn't say it himself, but it's been attributed to him for 200 years.

Whew, sorry, rant over. I better get something cool to drink and calm down...

[Mark123]

These screenings and the list of forbidden items has nothing to do with reality based threats but it makes the public feel safer, and maybe that is what matters. I think some of the policies are ridiculous, but b/c of my profession, I have to accept and support them. A friend of mine, who is a Captain in the Army, has been strip searched THREE times. I'm certain it's b/c he is black and his first name sounds Muslim. (The guy is from Alabama, speaks with a southern accent, and has never left the country except for deployments.) I joke him about it, tell him it's b/c he's such a handsome guy.

Rocky, I hope everything works out for you and your wife, but as a public defender, maybe you should have known better. I'm sorry about this happening to you.

My thread doesn't show the picture, but based on the descriptions of others ("angry icepick", "sharp and pointy") there was probably no question, regardless of how harmless in your eyes, that this was a weapon in their eyes.

I check any questionable items in baggage, bite my tongue, and realize that anything on my keychain (including my Atwood Prybaby) could be taken. God bless America! :)

But this too will pass.

[Stutoffee]

Ive recently added a AAA Minimag to my collection & I intend to carry that as my "in-flight" EDC light when I fly out in July.
It does seem that the TSA has taken away an awful lot of "freedoms", Im still APPALLED that when travelling to the US you have to lock your case with a special TSA lock that the TSA so-called "Agents" (sorry cant call em Agents without laughing! :laugh:) can open your case. Thats just not right.

[greenLED]

A friend of mine, who is a Captain in the Army, has been strip searched THREE times.
Reminds me of the story of soldiers being searched because their boots had gunpowder residue... :rolleyes:

[filedog]

Ben Franklin said: Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Actually, he didn't say it himself, but it's been attributed to him for 200 years.

Whew, sorry, rant over. I better get something cool to drink and calm down...


Whoever said it, they were right on the money O0 Too many dearly purchased freedoms are being lost in the name of "safety".

[Dirty Bob]

A lot of what we are told is essential for "security" is what Bruce Schneier (www.schneier.com) calls "security theater." I think that's a good term for a lot of these "procedures" and rules that really don't make us any safer, but make some people feel good that the government is doing "something" to protect them.

I hope we all carry a good, sturdy, bright flashlight when we travel. I'm partial to the Inova T1: it's obviously "too small" to be used as a weapon, but it's well made, fairly bright, and just small enough for front pocket carry alongside my wallet. I also like the 2AA Mini Maglight, and I also carry a small light on a neck chain for reading, looking inside bags, etc.

EDC for travel remains a tricky subject, but I've gotten some very good ideas from these forums. Keep it up, guys! :popcorn:

All my best,
Dirty Bob

[gw812]

Perhaps the solution for a carry-on weapon would be a flashlight with a strike bezel. As stated earlier it can function as a kubaton and if, they start to question it just turn it on and show 'em "harmless!" I know I've seen a how-to for adding one to a AA MiniMag on this board somewhere...

@Dirty Bob - you took the words right out of my mouth.

[RockyNomad]

i have one of these and will start carryong onboard
Surefire E2D Executive Defender (http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main.pl?pgm=co_disp&func=displ&strfnbr=6&prrfnbr=1132&sesent=0,0&search_id=977761)

[surespyder]

I'll never forget when I was asked to drink out of my water bottle at JFK by a Muslim TSA employee. Nothing against Muslims (except for the extremist kind who like to blow up innocent people), but it was kind of funny.

Last year, I flew from Thailand to Hong Kong with a 3 D-cell Maglite in my carry-on bag. Didn't even realize I had it in my duffel bag until I got home!