Derringers, etc.

[Johnny_Z]

Does anyone carry a firearm other than the standard wheel-gun or auto loader? I'm thinking if one wanted real concealability something small and flat would be ideal.

Comments, ideas?

[Amnesia Wes]

I looked into Derringers a while back.* I really liked the Bond Arms Derringers as you can use a .45 or .410 shotgun shell.* And that was fine for me as I only wanted it for a last ditch self defense situation.* Then I found that the KelTec P32 was smaller, lighter and narrower.* With 8 shot capacity.* Here's a pic of my setup...

I forgot to mention that I also have an Armalaser attached, which is great. I can shoot from any position: seated, lying down, straight from the hip, weak handed, etc. without ever having to fully extend my arm to sight down the barrel. I believe in a self-defense situation it is a big plus, as you can be almost completely hidden behind cover, yet still aim and shoot your target accurately. Not only that, but since most self-defense situations are in low light or dark conditions, the laser has tremendous advantage. Many ignorant people claim that the laser is a bad choice for SD as it gives away your position to the Bad Guy. If you are truly in a self-defense situation, the Bad Guy already knows where you are! I would rather choose accuracy; which the laser does give you. I hope this helps you.

Just my $.02, though.

Wes.

[Lee1959]

Wes is spot on, on this subject. Current technology makes handguns that are superior to most derringers in just about every catagory. They are flatter, lighter, much more shootable, have greater firepower, concealability, reloadability etc. etc. About the only area some derringers can beat the modern pocket pistol is in raw power such as the .410 shotshell and .45acp (and there are some SMALL .45 acp autoloaders so this is even in debate).

Touching off a .410 shotshell in the derringer is not a fun experience I can tell you from first hand. My cousin was in my CCW class, and the handgun he was planning on carrying was a .45 acp/.410 derringer. For the shooting part of the class he had to borrow one of my pistols, he tried but could only shoot 4 or 5 rounds (out of 100 required from various positions) before having to stop, and it was SLOW, too slow to qualify.

After the class he let me shoot it, I did, one time with a .410 and gave it back, it was just plain viscious.

My honest opinion if you want a pocket pistol? Go with a modern design pistol or revolver with modern ammunition and you will be better off.

[TKC]

How about getting a Seecamp in .32 or .380 (depending on where you live, about the .380).

[RGNY]

i know a few officers that carry .22mag derringers, mostly as a 'left hand' gun in a pocket holster, to get someone off you so you can pull your primary weapon.

i looked at the Bond .45, but when i set it next to the Kahr MK9 the savings were minimal.

[oceanbeamer]

I had a derringer in 22 mag for a while,as noted no fun to shoot even in 22 mag. I've shot the 45lc/.410 in bird shot and deerslugs and your right it is a clumsy weapon and difficult to shot effectively,,also ordered a Alaskin survival model in 45lc/.410,,,and the other barrel shot the 45/70 buffalo cartridge, and I only fired it four times..and that with gel palm shooting gloves on to prevent nerve damage to my hands... passed them them along to others , also owned a walther tph in 22lr that was a thing of beauty,It was small,shot very,well,and was thin as could be and easily hidden,,shot stingers only and never had a misfire.

[boomstick]

I rememeber seeing a while ago a derringer in .223 rem, does anyone have any knowledge of these or is it just me?

[gadgetjunky]

American Derringer Company cataloged the #1 in .223, but I have never seen one nor heard of one in the wild. I did see one in .30 Carbine though! Overall I think that they are fun but not really practical. I have shot the .410 derringers, and didn't find them bad at all, but at the time I was shooting a .357 mag snubby a lot. The .410 makes an awesome short range snake gun, but you have to practice with it a lot to be able to use it quickly. The High Standard 22 mag double action derringers are flat enough to make them easy to conceal, but I personally always preferred a NAA Mini or Beretta .25 for a really small backup.

[Toolboy]

Just beware that some state laws make it a felony to possess a short barreled shotgun...i.e...a .410 derringer.

[JonSidneyB]

I used to carry a Double Action .357 derringer for the front pocket. I then switched the a Guardian .32. When I tried a Centenial for the first time it surprized me. Even though it is larger, I found for a pocket it conceals better for me. The Centenial being rounder looked less like a gun in a front pocket than the smaller guns so I have abandoned the super small guns and keep a .357 Centenial in my left front pocket.

.223 out of a deringer seems wrong to me. Out of a derrenger barrel you are not going to get the velocity that cartridge needs. I think it will be horribly inefficient out of a derringer.

[Lugsalot]

.223 out of a deringer seems wrong to me. Out of a derrenger barrel you are not going to get the velocity that cartridge needs. I think it will be horribly inefficient out of a derringer.


Ditto. Not to mention the recoil out of a derringer (albeit one that's sized up to take the large .223 cartridge) would probably be quite fierce.
What do you guys have to say about the Downsizer WSP? It's available in many chamberings, including .357 Magnum and .45 ACP (probably as high as I'd care to go with a derringer).

Personally (and to concur with several other participants in this thread), I'd rather carry a super-compact automatic like the Rohrbaugh R9 pistol. The thought of only two shots (max) from a super-tiny gun, while better than nothing, is not something I'd like to limit myself to in an emergency. The R9 gives you more to hang on to (though it is comparatively "big" at 5" long x 4" tall x 0.9" thick), and holds 6 + 1 in the magazine.

Kel-Tec and Kahr are a couple other names to consider in the subcompact pistol arena. Not to say that derringers don't have a role to play as backup weapons, just that there's more "middle ground" these days between the service pistol/revolver and the "last-ditch" option.

[JonSidneyB]

I am finding if I can carry a small auto on a belt. I can conceal a compact version of a full sized gun almost as easily. under an untucked shirt I have even carried full sized autos well.

In a pocket I still find the flat surface a gun giveway and find autos really hard to draw from a pocket. The grip of a J-frame revolver is like a hook and comes out of a pocket easier than anything I have ever stuck in a pocket.

I used to want the ultimate small gun but after having alot of different ones. I have gotten rid of them all and carry a compact version of a full sized or a full sized behind the right hip and a J-frame revolver in the left front pocket as a weak hand gun plus back up.

[boomstick]

I was lead to believe that the .223 rem derringers where supposed to offer a back to people armed with a .223 rifle, serving troops, hunters etc.

We can't carry for SD over here anyway, but I do like derringers, probably the same way other people like clocks, I like the machanics of the little guns.

[JonSidneyB]

Most cartridges designed for rifles work poorly in handguns. There are exceptions of course. What I called hand rifles....such as the thompson contender to a fair job with rifle cartridges. Cartridges such as the .30 caliber carbine, and a few others.

Cartridge designed for handguns are generally every easy to adapt to long arm use.

There are some case having ammo compatablity between longarms and handguns but there are huge merits for having dedicated rifle and handgun cartridges as they can be optomized to the class of firearm more easily.