What type of CCW???

[redskins38]

Before too long i will be buying my first hand gun. This will be a CCW handgun. I really have no idea what type of gun to get or what caliber. Should i go witha revolver or auto loader? If i went with a revolver i was thinking about the S&W 442, what are your thoughts on that? Thnaks!

[quietmike]

It depends on your experience with handguns or the amount of time you are willing to put into learning about them. Revolvers are better if your not willing to put a lot of time into maintenance and upkeep as they are less likely to malfunction because of dirt in the action. If you do have a misfire or other problem you just pull the trigger again and a new chamber rotates into place. autos have the advantage of a slimmer profile larger capacity(usually) and usually more caliber choices. My caliber choice for a revolver is a 357 magnum. with this you can shhot 38 specials for practice- lots less recoil and noise, and use the magnums for carry-FBI reports 97% one shot stops among police shootings. For an auto my caliber picks would be 45acp or 357 sig. the 357 sig is ballistically identical to the magnum only shaped different to work in an auto. the 45... over 100 years of satisfied use by the military and second only to the 357 magnum in the FBI reports. whatever choice you make the thing that will make the difference is PRACTICE.

[Lee1959]

I would suggest you go to a local gunrange or gunshop with a range and try shooting as many examples of each as you can. This will help give you an idea of what feels best in your hand. No matter which way you go practice is the key, practice practice and more practice. Be it revolver or pistol, your life, innocent bystanders, and the lives of those you love just may depend upon your skill or lack thereof.

[TKC]

I also agree with what Lee1958 suggested. How much experience do you have with handguns? Have you taken an NRA safety course? I hope you have a range near by, so you CAN try out a variety of guns. What is the perfect gun for me, may not be the gun for you. Practice, practice, practice with what ever you choose.

[JonSidneyB]

On that hardware side of things. Revolvers are better for beginers. Some old hands that leave them for 10 years to go to Autos ofthen find their way back to them.

I think the 442 is fine but I also think the alloy and scandium centenials are the harder revolvers to shoot due the short sight radius. Also the 442 has more felt recoil than a lot of guns.

[longwatch]

I think the 442 and 642 are fine CCW handguns. I would just stick to the .38 special ones, .357 magnum makes a lot of noise and flash and recoil but isn't necessarily more effective out of the short barrel. The 442 is also perfect for pocket carry with a good holster, and if neccessary could be fired from a pocket reliably, meaning more than once which might be a problem with a hammered revolver or automatic. It's snagless design is optimal for drawing from concealment. As for accuracy I think you will find you will have no problem hitting a man sized target at up to 15 yards which is most likely well beyond where it will hopefully never have to be used. Get it with the confidence that you only have to buy quality once which is what you are getting with a 442. You may find someday that you might want to move up to a Glock or 1911 but that 442 will still be there as a BUG or for times where more descete carry is requires.

[redskins38]

The only handgun i have ever shot is my dad glock 27 and i have done that very little. there is a local range i will be able to go to that is quite close. Is magazine capacity a problem for revolvers?

[JonSidneyB]

For almost every self defence case capacity is not a problem. On the other hand there are few exceptions.
This is offset by the disadvantage of automatics. The automatic can have trouble at contact distance and is slightly slower to present from concealment but has lower felt recoil and has more capacity.

I actually feel equally armed with either one.

They do have advantages over revolvers for a military or police gun where their might be multiple targets.

I say carry one of each. Both have stengths and weeknesses.

[Lee1959]

At the risk of sounding like an extreme nit, a revolver does not have a magazine,it has a cylander. Sorry, just one of my pet peeves, like people calling a magazine a clip, a revolver a pistol and a few others, lol ok I am a nit.

I would not feel underarmed with a revolver, I dont when I carry one matter of fact. Speed loaders are also available for faster reloading if needed which usually is not the case in most encounters. There used to be an old adage for the Texas Rangers, one town one ranger. And all they used (after they were invented, they used Colt Pattersons first) were Colt SAAs (Single Action Armys) and eventually Winchestor rifles. The reason for this comment? Practice makes up for a lot of the so called flaws in any weapon and making the real weapon that counts the person holding it.

[JonSidneyB]

I used to knit pick about the cylinder being called a magazine myself.

Soon someone pointed out all the things called a magazine and how the word was used before the revolver or magazine fed automatic.

These definition were used in the pre cartridge era:

To store in, or as in, a magazine; to store up for use.

A receptacle in which anything is stored, especially
military stores, as ammunition, arms, provisions, etc.

The building or room in which the supply of powder is kept
in a fortification or a ship.

After the introduction of the cartridge they were sometimes called cartridge magazines then sometimes portable devices to carry cartridges were called magazines. When the Spencer rifle was created the tube was sometimes called a magazine. I think the word evolved but a cylinder might technically be a magazine.

I know that many do not like the word clip but it might possible define the magazine into a particular type of magazine.

[redskins38]

What about the sig p232? would this be good handgun for ccw?

[Lee1959]

Red, Sig makes a fine pistol, I am sure thatif you try one and like it, it would make you a very good weapon.

Jon, I know what you are saying and loosely you are quite correct. It is just nitpicking to say otherwise however I do think it important for newcomers to learn proper terminology in any new venture, evenif they never end up using it later on. When Colt invented the first viable revolver, he named the "magazine", a cylinder and it is the correct term by simple invention.

I know many terms have by popular incorrect usage over time become blurred but it does not make them truly correct. Take my CCW permit for an excellant example of unknowledgeable people creating legalities. The wording used in it allow me to carry "a concealed pistol" verbatum. Websters dictionary terms a pistol as a handgun with the chamber integral to the barrel, which excludes by definition a revolver. Therefore, legally defined, I could get in trouble carrying a revolver, even though it is unlikely since it is a bastardized term now that most loosely use. :)

[Roadkill Bill]

Lee, anything made by Sig is going to be a quality firearm. But then, so do Ruger, Smith & Wesson, Glock, Springfield, Kimber, etc. Just don't get that south of the border garbage. If you want something you can just stick in your pocket, the 442 or 638 will be fine. You can at least cock the hammer on the 638. The only problem with a small light gun like this is that they are not a lot of fun to shoot, and some folks don't practice enough with them. Handle a ton of guns, and find the one that fits your hand comfortably. If the gun feels good, you are going to shoot it better, and practice more. The revolvers have some advantages over the automatics, one of which is the grip. It doesn't have to enclose a magazine and can be smaller and contoured so it is easier to hold. Sigs, however have great ergonomics, and are very comfortable autos to hold and shoot. Revolvers cost less. Autos can hold more rounds. Most of which will never be needed, but some folks just feel safer carrying more rounds, "just in case."

Personally, if I am carrying an auto, it's a Glock. (G21 actually.) Nothing has been tested and abused more than a Glock ever since the liberals first shouted that airport X-ray machines can't see them. They were ignorant (still are). They have 50% fewer parts than the traditional autos, so there is less to go wrong. But again, all the major players put out quality guns. The Springfield XD45 seems to be the new hot thing now. What feels good to you, and how much do you want to spend?

If I'm trusting my life to a revolver, which I do a lot, I carry a Smith & Wesson. Dependable, doesn't jam, smooth trigger, & Hogue grips make it perfect. Most revolvers are cheaper than autos, but some Smiths can get rather pricy, too. The average numbers of shots fired in a gunfight is still below 2 rounds, so if your gun holds 5, 6, or 7 (the 2.5" 686 is really sweet, and it comes in a 7 shot), you are probably going to be just fine. Not too many civilians get in prolonged gun battles with drug lords like the police on TV.

Knowing what I know today, if I had only one gun, it would be the 2.5" S&W 686. It's stout enough to handle .357 loads all day long, but you have the option of shooting .38s and .38+Ps as well as the magnums. It is the most perfectly balanced gun I have ever held. Pointing it is like pointing your finger. If any of you other guys have never held one, I suggest you try it next time you're in a gun store. I think you'll be impressed. It comes in either a 6 or 7 shot version, and you can get speed loaders for either one. And you can also get night sights put on it, too. (I have a 3" K-frame and a 4" N-frame Smith with night sights on them.)

Everyone has their own opinions, and experiences. I'm one of those guys who started out with a revolver; went to automatics; but now have gone back to, and have a boatload of revolvers. I keep and carry the Glock because I really like the .45 ACP round. I control it a wee bit better than the .357 when shooting a lot of rounds in a hurry, but that's pretty much TV stuff. My favorite round of all time is the .44 mag, but that's for huntin', fun, and wilderness travel. (I like .41 mags, too!) Just get what feels good to YOU. We can all sit around and tell you what we like and why, but it's gotta be what feels good in your hand, and what you trust.

If you really enjoy shooting, you're gonna wind up with more than one gun anyway! Your tastes, desires, and choices will change over time. You'll have to get a .22 for cheap practice and just darn good (cheap) fun! Single action revolvers are the most fun of all . . . but that's a different thread!

I know. More information than you needed or wanted. Sorry. Good luck!

[Lee1959]

Not sure why you said that to me Bill, I simply told redskin that Sig makes a good firearm because they asked. nothing was mentioned about any other company having or not having quality firearms. As far as the rest of your post, I dont see anything controversial there. It is pretty much what may will say. Its not far off of my own experiences, I simply do not tell others what is the best gun for them, as I beleive they need to try them and find out what works for them. What works for me will do them absolutely no good, they are not me, I am not them.

Any good quality .357 revolver would make a fine carry piece, I myself would prefer a Ruger Security Six or GP100 to the 686 but that is just taste. Heck, I might even consider a Taurus .44 special revolver as a top concealed revolver candidate.

But if I was going to have only one handgun it would likely be the .44 S&W M329 scandium 4 inch revolver, Mag-na-ported and reworked by them internally.

hotlinked image removed
:gl:

Until I get that one, this lovely will have to do for my .44, its not too hard to settle for... Mag-na-port has done a bit of work making it one of the sweetest .44s I have ever shot, and I have shot a bunch.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/patycake21/Redhawk.jpg

[Roadkill Bill]

Sorry Lee, I meant Redskins. Your name stuck out for some reason as the person who originally asked the question, but I erred. It's pretty bad when you're too lazy to hit the scroll button and check!

[Lee1959]

Bill, s'ok you just had me a bit confused as to why you were saying that to me is all :) .

[MatthewVanitas]

Just don't get that south of the border garbage.

What guns would those be? I can't think of any guns made south of the US, in common circulation, that are that bad.

The absolute worst guns in America are all... made in America. Phoenix, Lorcin, Jennings, Bryco, etc.


The only Latin American guns in common circulation theses days are Argentine and Brazilian, both of whom are industrialized countries with a strong firearms industry.

Springfield Armory makes garbage? That'd be news to a lot of folks. Rossi and Taurus had good designs with patchy QC back before I was old enough to buy guns, but make pretty solid stuff these days.

Ditto the Argentine Bersa line, which mainly makes a version of the Walther PK that is very well regarded among shooters.

Any of the Rossi, Taurus, Bersa, or Springfield Armory products are far better than the low end American products listed above, and actually even a step above the second-tier "cheap but usable" American guns like Kel-Tec and Hi-Point.

-MV

[hkusp9f]

Don't forget not everyone thinks Ruger or S&W is worth the money,I'd buy a Bersa or Taurus before I'd buy a Ruger or a S&W.

[TKC]

And you couldn't pay ME to take a Bersa or Taurus for that matter!

[0dBm]

I generally stay away from the off brands such as Bersa, High Standard, Phoenix, Lorcin, Jennings, Bryco, etc. I have luckily been able to afford the name brands. I once thumbed my nose at those other brands until I thought about a family that did not have the wherewithal to afford the better quality firearms.

They were honest, hardworking people that never got ahead in life, but nonetheless had as good if not a better reason to have something to protect themselves: they were even more so vulnerable because they were poor AND there were others that preyed upon them just BECAUSE they were poor.

They lived quite a bit from the reaches of public service and little to rely on besides themselves. I knew about them through friends of friends of friends that were related to them; themselves not that much better off except that a child managed to get enough education to get a job that enabled the rest of the family to barely move away from the poverty.

For many years, a group of us put together a CARE package during the Christmas holiday season that included some clothes that we no longer wanted to wear, canned foods that we found sitting in the pantry, and whatever we could find that we could spare. I often added cash that I would ordinarily just blow on thoroughly useless things. It's appalling to fathom that these are Americans living IN the US.

I went along a few times to help deliver the package. On one occasion, I managed to have seen what turned out to be a beat-up, old Rossi revolver that the head of the household kept for personal protection. The man told me that if he felt that he didn't need it so much, he would have sold it long ago to buy food.

The bluing on the six-cylinder revolver was so completely worn off that much of the gun was bare metal, but he kept it clean, oiled, and in an old sock. He told me that he used whatever oil that he could find; mostly what he could scavenge from the rail yard he cleaned for a living.

The five cartridges that he had in the firearm was because he once used the sixth to fire a warning shot to scare off the 3 "hooligans" that were about to rape his then 13-year daughter walking home from school. She was nearly 30 at the time of this visit.

The five cartridges were the old lead round nose variety that was once the staple back in the 30s-50s long before the hollowpoint was invented. I do not believe that those cartridges would fire.

The man looked at my brand-new SigArms P229, the hand-crafted custom leather holster and matching magazine pouch and belt and smiled cautiously. He asked if the Sig was one of "...them Army 45s." I explained to him that it was a bit different. It was not until he saw my customized, stainless steel hammerless S&W Model 640 .38 Centennial Revolver that he beamed with smile that lit up the whole house.

We had a nice long conversation about just about everything. He was remarkably knowledgeable for someone whom never got past the 3rd grade.

The next day (December 26, 1993), I made that one-way, 380-mile drive back to his house. I presented him a box of 50 Federal 115-grain, standard pressure, .38 Special cartridges and I traded it for the 5 RNL in his Rossi.

I saw him and his family once more before moving out of state. He still kept that Rossi clean and loaded but with only 5 cartridges. I was going to ask why only 5 but I figured he had his reasons and I wasn't going to convince him otherwise. I gave gave him 2 speed strips and trained him how to use it. I also started to tell him that it was a good idea to practice with the remaining 45 cartridges, but I suspect that he would just tell me that it would have been a waste to do so.

I am about to oder a Kimber Custom CDP II (http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols/cdp/customcdp.php) as my future CCW pistol because it has the lightweight aluminum frame and most of the other features that I desire in a carry sidearm for personal protection AND it is legal in California. I was going to buildt one from the ground up but have little time to spare these days.

I still have the S&W Model 6640 .357 that I purchased after selling the Model 640 .38. This is one of the very best CCW firearms available.

The Kimber is moderately priced in comparison to the custom and near-custom models available. Each time I even think about handguns, I think about that man and his old Rossi. I never even knew his name.

[EODtech]

What about the sig p232? would this be good handgun for ccw?


I just ordered my second P232 from SIG. I carried one as a "pocket" back-up weapon and gave it to my partner when I retired 12 years ago. Just today I sent in an order for a 2-tone - P232 ( .380ACP ). The weapon is very practical and functional, I never had a malfunction when firing the SIG. SIG makes great firearms, my other NEW "off duty" weapon is a SIG P220 Carry ( 45 ACP ) - purchased last Saturday second hand from a local Pawn Shop. The 220 is a more "robust" weapon and is tough to beat for a concealed weapon to carry in a holster on a regular basis ( it's too big to fit in a pocket).

I've owned S&W, Colt, Glock, SIG and Ruger handguns, and in my opinion SIGs are #1 based on 45 years experience carrying a handgun AND shooting competition matches.

SIGARMS WWW site (http://www.sigarms.com)

[hkusp9f]

And you couldn't pay ME to take a Bersa or Taurus for that matter!


OK,let's start of with ruger....their autos suck and always have, especially the P series......granted their wheel guns are OK...sort of.......on to S&W their wheel guns pre stupid lock were very good..then they went to the stupid internal lock...their autos have always had feed and function problems.........I carry an H&K USP(9mm) or a SIG P220(.38 super) or a Springfield 1911a1(.45 acp) custom,but i can afford the more expensive firearms,not everyone is that well off.I have spent almost 20 years as an armorer both civilian and military......bottom line is what fits your hand and you can shoot well and afford........if all I could afford was a $200.00 new bersa to protect myself thats what i would use.........

[greenLED]

I learned with a full size pistol, and have been using a G19 lately. I'm looking into a G26, but I'm open to other options as well. I have friends who are Sig fans. What they've told me is that I should find a gun that I feel comfortable with and has good reliability track record.

[TKC]

I would suggest that you go to a range that rents guns, and try out a few.See what YOU feel the most comfortable shooting. What may be right for me, may not be right for you.

[Ultra]

Redskins: I'll help you pick a caliber at least, then suggest the only viable options in semi auto pistols (meaning the only ones I'd ever trust my life to ;D )

Ok, first, your height and weight please :-) and you're a man, I presume? Have you tried any calibers already? if so, which ones.

[peacefuljeffrey]

The only handgun i have ever shot is my dad glock 27 and i have done that very little. there is a local range i will be able to go to that is quite close. Is magazine capacity a problem for revolvers?


Really? A Glock 27? Your dad is COOL!! That's one of my favorite guns, period! O0

I recommend that you go to a gun shop and get connected with someone who teaches a course on Concealed Carry, in additiont to practical defensive shooting lessons. That person will be able to assess you, your skills, and what you need, and get you on the road to a proper choice. Look for NRA credentials.

[Oldskoolfan]

Get an HK P2000 and you will be happy. Its an excellent gun for all around use.

[Ultra]

Walther, HK, anything flies as long as it has an internal hammer, DA first shot or SA cocked for us cowboys :lolhammer: