Going to the UK: what can I carry?

[Crocodilo]

In a couple of weeks I will be on the UK for some days. I am however unsure of what will be legal to carry. I now my main (locking) folders are off-limits, so these are the devices I'm considering taking. Will any of these pose a problem with the authorities?

-Victorinox Mini-Champ
-Leatherman Squirt P4
-Standard or mini PryBaby XL
-Ti-Pry
-Flashlights (faux-photon, Arc-P, Fenix L1P and P1)

For now, my safest bet would be theMini-Champ coupled with a fauxton...

Thanks for any help!

[pipedreams]

All you need is a good bottle opener! :laugh:

todd

[Bobby D]

None of that should pose a problem, though if searched (big if!) eyebrows may be raised over the ti-pry.

Bring a locking blade if you want. Sure, it's illegal to carry in the street, but you won't get in trouble at the airport.

If your profile (getting tactical now) may draw unwarranted attention from the law, then leave it at your accomodation. Otherwise, it's your call.

Hope you have a great stay!

Bob.

[Ging]

Hi Crocodilo, where are you going in the UK and what are you doing (if you don't mind me asking)?

As if you are going to London, for example, then you want to stay well within the law and only have friendly looking stuff (SAK etc). There are more changes of getting your bag searched as it is a major terrorist hotspot.

Where as if you where going to Scotland to hunt/camp in the mountains then you can carry a lock knife/fixed blade as you have a good reason.

PM me if you want anymore help :)

[Crocodilo]

Oxford, coming in through London. Best chance to be searched will be... entering night clubs! Thanks.

[Bobby D]

Oxford, coming in through London. Best chance to be searched will be... entering night clubs! Thanks.


My kind of holiday! Don't take anything, not even a SAK into clubs, they'll take it off you or not let you in.

As Ging said, keep it friendly looking as you are gonna be passing through London. My advice about a locking folder is probably bad, unless it stays in luggage.

It's a good job you can't take weapons into clubs over here. The beer prices and the shockingly bad bar service would put you in a serious mind for hurtin' :knuppel2:

Bob.

[Ging]

It's a good job you can't take weapons into clubs over here. The beer prices and the shockingly bad bar service would put you in a serious mind for hurtin' :knuppel2:

Well said that man :) Oxford is a nice city, I went a couple of years ago it really is great. Have a nice time!!

[peacefuljeffrey]

All of this points to what I already had concluded:

That going to England is out. I won't go. This crap reminds me of a woman asking what she would have to do to placate the muslims if she were taking a vacation to Saudi Arabia, what freedoms she would have to be mindful of not asserting just in order to not arouse the wrath of the authorities there. >:(

I really see little to no difference, and it makes me sick that anyone would have to think about divesting himself of a swiss army knife to avoid getting in trouble!

-Jeffrey

[Bobby D]

All of this points to what I already had concluded:

That going to England is out.* I won't go.*
-Jeffrey


That's a shame peacefuljeffrey, it really is.

Crocodilo, have a great time! As Ging said, Oxford is a lovely city, plenty of great bars! :cheers:

All the best, Bob.

[dyyys1]

Peacefuljeffrey, I see where you are coming from, but I disagree. We can debate all we want about what the government should have a right to restrict and what we have a right to carry (I favor less restriction, by the way), but that debate really doesn't apply here. The reason you would have to leave some stuff behind is really to prevent confrontations or offense. I go to a church where people don't have to dress up really nicely. However, if I go to a church where everyone wears a tie and dress pants then I will wear a tie and dress pants. I don't do this because of my personal beliefs, but out of respect for what others believe is right or proper. If I go to the UK I will not take things that are illegal to carry, not because I think a society is dangerous with people carrying weapons or objects that could be used as weapons, but because those around me feel that way and I don't want to start a confrontation over something that doesn't really matter (i.e. how big of a knife I can carry). That being said, if it is not worth it to you to go to the UK if you have to give up an EDC item for a little while, that's fine. My only point is that it is reasonable for lawmakers in the UK to expect me to respect their laws (within reason), whether I agree with the the laws themselves or not.

[benp1]

Crocodilo - I live in london and have permanently on me a Squirt S4 and an Arc-P. I get let into everywhere with this. Clubs, pubs, bars etc. Never had a problem. To be honest I wouldn't worry about it. I've been searched with it and they feel you're pocket, feel its keys and then carry on.

I guess if you look a big 'dodgy' it might be a problem but for your average guy (or gal) I wouldn't worry about it. Generally keychain EDC will be fine. Anything bigger and it starts to get a bit more difficult

[webley445]

Crocodilo -* I live in london and have permanently on me a Squirt S4 and an Arc-P. I get let into everywhere with this. Clubs, pubs, bars etc. Never had a problem. To be honest I wouldn't worry about it. I've been searched with it and they feel you're pocket, feel its keys and then carry on.

I guess if you look a big 'dodgy' it might be a problem but for your average guy (or gal) I wouldn't worry about it. Generally keychain EDC will be fine. Anything bigger and it starts to get a bit more difficult


they actually lay hands on you and pat you down?!?!
I hope that is not the case. I can understand emptying the pockets and even wanding, maybe grab the pocket of a jacket or vest, though, imho it would be more appropriate to ask to see the contents, but I would not be too happy about a pat down, even just lightly touching me and my garments

[Pyro]

they actually lay hands on you and pat you down?!?!
I hope that is not the case. I can understand emptying the pockets and even wanding, maybe grab the pocket of a jacket or vest, though, imho it would be more appropriate to ask to see the contents, but I would not be too happy about a pat down, even just lightly touching me and my garments
It's not unusual to be frisked while going into clubs or concerts, but I've never been frisked while entering a bar or a pub and I've never been wanded anywhere other than an airport, but I've lost count of the number of times I've been frisked, it's not a big deal, there's usually a queue for the men and a queue for the women to be frisked so there shouldn't be any issues.

[Bobby D]

I guess we're trying to cover all eventualities here.

Chances are you won't get frisked, patted, wanded etc. during your night out, but I'd hate to have someone on holiday have their night spoilt by losing some gear or being turned away.

I've routinely carried sharps and tools into pubs and clubs, but ultimately I'd have to ask myself why I need any particular tool on a night out. These days I just leave it all at home. If you live in the UK and feel vulnerable without some form of weapon then you need to move/stay in/toughen up/lighten up, or all four. If you find my last statement insulting, I apologise, but it's coming from someone who is only just learning to do without after too much time considering 'hardware' options on a night out.

The UK is genuinely a great place. I've been over much of the world in my previous job, and am glad to have settled back here.

We have a lot of tight and /or silly laws over here, but the likelyhood of thos laws being exercised on good people are slim (despite what the papers say).

Bob.

[Crocodilo]

I go regularly to the UK on business, and this will be just one more of those trips. In the past I used to just carry my passport and Visa whenever going out at night, and that's probably what I will be doing this time. I may agree or not with the laws and routines on each country, but I fully intend to respect them. Up to a certain point, I even understand their reason for being (I was there during last summer's attacks on London).

The initial reason for this post was that it's becoming increasingly difficult for me to drop my EDC habbits, and I ignore lots of details about local laws. For instance, can a LEO consider a Prybaby a "robbers tool"?

Going to the clubs isn't much of an issue. I understand the policy. For instance, being a military, in my country I can carry just about anything. However some clubs here will also search for and deny entry to any kind of weapon, and they have the right to do so. When going there, I tend to leave the knives at home (the gun and the car are always at home when I go out drinking). Is a multitool really needed on those occasions?

As for my public profile, I go naturally unnoticed. However, in the UK, I am indeed foreigner, wear a nearly shaved head and a beard, and am latin. In times of tension, these features may be noted.

Thanks for all the helpfull replies!

[Pyro]

If you're going on a night out you should be prepared to be frisked so don't carry a knife, it's as simple as that. I've been to clubs with my UKPK in my pocket and my SAK on my belt, but it's not advised and if I was frisked the chances are the bouncers would phone the police rather than just not letting me in which would really ruin a night out.

I think the likelihood of you being frisked comes down to where you are and what clubs you're going to, in big cities there's a good chance of you being frisked while entering a club, but it's not guaranteed.

The UK is actually a very nice and friendly place despite what we sometimes make out, I've lived in Glasgow all my live (which has been called the knife crime capital of Europe in the past) and I've never fallen victim to crime, although it bugs me that I can't carry anything for self defense in the UK I've fortunatly never needed to defend myself (excluding high school that is :P ;) ).

[benp1]

Crocodilo, the safe answer is carry nothing. But, in all honesty, most legal things are fine. If you are going out to a bar or pub, I would leave everything 'unsafe' at home, this includes sheeply friendly knives like SAKs and also all multitools. You just don't want them to have a reason to not let you in, it just ruins your night. Alternatively you could leave stuff with them and risk not getting it back - they'll leave it at the front for you and you can collect it on your way out, it will most likely be nicked by someone though to be honest

All keychain based tools/gizmos/toys should be fine, hence why the Squirt is fine. I would say that all the small classic-szied SAKs are fine. Leave out keychain knives (although most of them are lockable and therefore not legal anyway). Most torches are fine, they're not a problem unless they're huge or if they have a strike bezel. A normal torch would be fine, i'b probably go with a small one just in case though - single cell torches.

I would expect to be searched everywhere, its not a full blown police search, just a quick pat down, nothing to worry about. However, expect it everywhere and if you don't get one then its all good!

I wouldn't be happy taking any knife into a bar/club/pub, just keychain ones. There is a reason for a keychain one - its a keychain. Taking one with you is asking for trouble. I'm sure you'll have a great time over here, Ben

[peacefuljeffrey]

Peacefuljeffrey, I see where you are coming from, but I disagree.* *We can debate all we want about what the government should have a right to restrict and what we have a right to carry (I favor less restriction, by the way), but that debate really doesn't apply here.* The reason you would have to leave some stuff behind is really to prevent confrontations or offense.

There is no way to justify feeling offended by someone's possession of a tool. What these people would be saying is that they don't want us to be able to carry, and have available to us, the most useful tool mankind has ever developed -- the sharp edge. I'm sorry, but taking offense at someone's having a knife is just...stupid. For cripes sake, take offense if they USE the knife OFFENSIVELY (i.e. in a force crime against another person) but if it's carried innocently for use when it is useful, then people should STFU and just let be.


My only point is that it is reasonable for lawmakers in the UK to expect me to respect their laws (within reason), whether I agree with the the laws themselves or not.*


Our founders admonished us to resist unjust laws. I am curious as to where the threshold would be for you, since even though a law against simple pocket knives is utterly unreasonable -- a law based on fear and lack of understanding -- you advocate obeying it, and pledge to do so. A law should not be obeyed simply because it is there, but because it makes sense.


-Jeffrey

[Stutoffee]

I regularly carry a Leatherman Wave which MOST reasonable cops/security guards wouldnt be too bothered about, but I probably wouldnt try & carry it into a nightclub. Ive been frisked &/or wanded in some clubs, but, as with most things, your ATTITUDE is key. If you look like trouble, they'll assume you ARE trouble.
Carry a LM Micro or similar & a sgl cell flashlight (WE call 'em torches!!) & Im sure youll be fine. I carry a LM Micra & a LM Wave at work & a Surefire E2D, I feel quite comfortable & MY company has a policy of NO knives or "weapons" at work, In fact my boss is always borrowing my LM Wave!

[Kris]

Yep we have some tight laws inthe UK. Not all of us like them but we have to live with them. :knuppel2:

Attitude goes a long way if you dont look like trouble or look for trouble then you wont get in trouble.

Living and working in London we do see security go up and down but i wouldnt advise carrying any form of knife into a night club as that will cause problems.

Having worked "the door" on a few occasions knives of any sort are confiscated while the person is in the club, the person is refused entry or on occasions the police are called as its an offensive weapon !! (yes you would be suprised what some people carry)

as for flashlights/torches or other items dont see those causing a problem.

[Brangdon]

I am curious as to where the threshold would be for you, since even though a law against simple pocket knives is utterly unreasonable -- a law based on fear and lack of understanding -- you advocate obeying it, and pledge to do so.

Britain does not have a law against simple pocket knives.

I think you may be confusing two things. The first is the right of the owner of a private club to refuse admittance to anyone for almost any reason. Some clubs don't like knives. If you disagree, don't go to that club. It's not a legal issue.

The second is a law against offensive weapons - not tools, weapons - which makes explicit the dictum that a simple pocket knife is not an offensive weapon, but which says bigger knives may be. The idea here is appropriateness. If you have a good reason for a big knife, eg because you cutting down trees in a forest, that's fine. If you just need something to peel oranges with, then a pocket knife is adequate and that's the most you should carry.

In my mind the only really wrong part of this is the ruling that a "pocket knife" is defined as having a short, folding blade, and if it locks open then it is not considered to be a folder. This ruling was not part of the original statute law, and I think is a misinterpretation of it, but it's become a case-law precedent and we are stuck with it for the time being. The system isn't prefect.

I think the bit Americans have extra trouble with is the rule that self-defence is not a "good reason" to carry a weapon. In practice the difference between defence and offence is pretty small. Arguments escalate gradually and courts don't really want to get into the question of "who started it" and who was acting in self-defence. Let's be frank. Self-defence means you are carrying a weapon for the purpose of hurting other people. When push comes to shove, you'll use it. A minor event will escalate into a major one. More people will end up injured.

[Crocodilo]

More people will end up injured.


1. There is yet to prove a direct relation between carry laws and number of injuries/assaults/etc. Some say that those who carry (even legally)will use them. Some say that those who carry responsibly will take extra care not to get into a situation that requires it's use. Your choice of opinion.

2. Despite of any laws, people with bad intentions will still carry what they deem fit. Those who are about to break the law by robbing or attacking, will gladly break another (minor) law, by carrying, and thus gaining an advantage. However, with wepons banned, most citizens will be unnarmed against any robber/agressor. Always remember, the laws will only be respected by... law-abiding citizens.

3. There is absolutely no way of classifying a weapon as "offensive" or "defensive". Only the user and the situation will dictate those parts.

[matt_w]

1. There is yet to prove a direct relation between carry laws and number of injuries/assaults/etc. Some say that those who carry (even legally)will use them. Some say that those who carry responsibly will take extra care not to get into a situation that requires it's use. Your choice of opinion.

2. Despite of any laws, people with bad intentions will still carry what they deem fit. Those who are about to break the law by robbing or attacking, will gladly break another (minor) law, by carrying, and thus gaining an advantage. However, with wepons banned, most citizens will be unnarmed against any robber/agressor. Always remember, the laws will only be respected by... law-abiding citizens.

3. There is absolutely no way of classifying a weapon as "offensive" or "defensive". Only the user and the situation will dictate those parts.


You are of course correct. But the mindset that says if 'more people will get injured if everyone carries a pocket knife' is exactly the reason why the lawmakers get away with passing unjust laws here in the UK.

We are constantly given the line about people getting into arguments and attacking each other despite the fact that generally speaking the UK is a peaceful place. The majority of violent crimes are committed by a small percentage of the population who coincidentally disregard the knife and offensive weapons laws anyway.

Vulnerability is actually safety in the topsy turvy land we call the UK and you can always find a law abiding citizen prepared to repeat it. I sometimes think that the biggest problem we have here in the UK is not the law, but the people who defend the legislation by telling you that statistically, it will probably be someone else who is beaten to death later today for his wallet.

[Brangdon]

Some say that those who carry responsibly will take extra care not to get into a situation that requires it's use. Your choice of opinion.You think the kind of person who avoids fights when they have a knife, will choose to get into one when they don't? That seems unlikely to me.


2. Despite of any laws, people with bad intentions will still carry what they deem fit.The advantage is when they are detected doing so and thus stopped before they do harm.


3. There is absolutely no way of classifying a weapon as "offensive" or "defensive". Only the user and the situation will dictate those parts.Yes, that was my point.

However it's worth noting that if someone attacks you, they'll try to take you by surprise. They'll have their weapon out and your's will still be in a pocket, where it does no good. What seems to happen instead is that you see someone else with a weapon, so you get yours out and tackle them. Which is hardly self-defence.

[Crocodilo]

Fellow EDCers:

Just back from the UK. 5 days in Oxford and 1 in London. Everything was great as usual (except for the food), and my wife joined me for the last three days. EDC was just:

-Moleskine
-bullet Space Pen
-Fenix E0
-Passport, VISA and ATM cards

Although I had a P4 in the hotel room, never needed to use it.

Thanks to the forum for all the positive feedback and discussion. Moderators, this thread is ready to be closed.

[Pwallwin]

All of this points to what I already had concluded:
That going to England is out.* I won't go.* This crap reminds me of a woman asking what she would have to do to placate the muslims if she were taking a vacation to Saudi Arabia, what freedoms she would have to be mindful of not asserting just in order to not arouse the wrath of the authorities there.* *>:(
I really see little to no difference, and it makes me sick that anyone would have to think about divesting himself of a swiss army knife to avoid getting in trouble!*
-Jeffrey


I know your post wasn't very recent, but I'd like to reply anyway.

I do not agree with the relaxed carrying laws in America (from what I've learnt of them). This is my personal opinion - you obviously think the same about the laws here in the UK.
Are you actually saying you would not go to the UK merely because of tightened carrying laws?!?

Restrained carrying laws are logically safer than relaxed laws... Would you rather have everyone on the streets carrying weapons, or no-one carrying weapons because they know they will receive a serious punishment if seen carrying?? Surely that is only a good thing? I take into account that a minority will not heed the laws.

Sometimes I think some laws in the UK are a pain in the butt, (being scared to carry a multi tool - if carrying it only with good intentions). But look at the bigger picture - I think it's definately the right way to go, as it's logically the safest, most preventative measure of tackling crime. I am proud of our strict carrying laws, and it makes me sad to think that American citizens pity us when they hear them... :(

Paul

[laurent]

Hum... I'm not sure. As say the Tao, more laws, more criminals... Strict laws handicap only law-abiding citizens.
I feel equally safe in Paris, which is high-controlled by the police, and french Riviera, where guns are freely illegaly carried, but not at all in in-between towns where police can't protect me (they even can't protect themself) and if I'm caught with my telescopic baton or a 9 mm, even if I do nothing wrong, I can be thrown in jail...

[scríbhneoir]

Thread closed as per request...and it was veering a wee bit off topic to boot. :)

:pp: