Glock, Sig, HK Compare 'em

[rusty edge]

Hello, this might be my first thread here, but I have been lurking for months :)
I frequently visit several forums, and have learned that sometimes people on the net get alittle fanatical about a specific brand/style of product, and spend more time on the net chatin' about it then using it. With this in mind I would like a true, unbiased opinion of these three gun manufacturers.
I currently own a Glock 23 .40, and I really like this gun, but I am in the market for a 9mm or .45 (havn't decided which way I want to go from my .40 Glock yet) I want to try another brand, and Sig and HK have both really caught my eye. Of course HK fans say only HK, Sig guys say only Sig and etc, but I figured I could get a pretty fair, intellegent opinion here. What are the pros/cons of a Sig to an HK? And if possible compare these to the Glock 23 I already own for a frame of reference.
The first good opion I have gotten is a cop buddy of mine that says he has to carry his Glock on duty, but sports his Sig .40 whenever he can. Thanks in advance, and from what I have read this is a really cool forum ;)

[Chuck G.]

I would stay with the Glock buy a bunch of ammo and train, train train. In my opinion I think all of the top companys make great guns. The Glock, HK and Sig are all well manufactured great pistols. I guess it comes back to what you like the best. Go to a gun range and rent the HK and Sig and see if you like them. They are going to cost way more than the Glock but if you have the coin who cares. :)

I love my Glock and carry one on duty. If they told me I had to carry a Sig or HK I really wouldn't care. I train with then until they felt good to me.

My .02 Cents.

[FlipMag]

I own a Glock 19c and a Sig Sauer 225 and saving my pennies for an HK P2000 (I want this gun, because Ive done my research, shot it, and handled one quite a bit)

Anyway....your right - HK fans say only HK, Sig guys say only Sig. It all come down to fits you better, they are all top quality.
So you want my opinion? I would go with the Sig Sauer, It fits my hand like a glove, and for some reason I can shoot it the most accurately of any handgun I own.

[was_jlh]

rusty_edge, another "sig guy" here.

you asked for unbiased opinion, and that's going to be hard to find.* i've never fired a glock or an hk, so i can't compare them, but i can't imagine another handgun feeling like my sig or earning my confidence more than my sig.

find a dealer who will let you handle and fire the sig and hk.* see what feels best to you.* if you're like me, you'll have a gut response to the best one for you.

[marlin4570]

I'm like Fip and have a Glock 19 and a Sig 225. My best friend has an HK USP Compact in .45. I've shot his HK more than I've shot my Sig <I just got the Sig> and I shoot it better than any 1911 I've owned. I like both the HK and the Sig but bought the Sig because I got a great deal on it.

I don't think from a quality or reliability standpoint you can go wrong. See which one fits you best and go with that one. You might always ask around and see if you can rent them or try someone's at the range before you put down the $$$. Whichever one you get, practice will make the difference.

[greencobra]

I own the Glock 23 and a Sig 220 .45.* Like them both very much for different reasons.* Glock is a very simple design, pretty straight forward where the Sig is a more complicated machine.* And I think you need large hands to grip the Sig 220, some people complain about that with the Glock but I believe the Sig grip could be more of a handful.* All my Glocks have the factory trigger and need more trigger control than the Sig except of course when the Sig is shot from the DA first shot mode.* I do wish I bought the Sig in .40 instead of the .45 just because I prefer the .40 and have since it's introduction.* I also have a Glock 17 and 19, both 9's as you know.* The 17 has given me ejection problems over the years and no one can iron that out.* But both pistols are a joy to shoot.* The 17 was sent to a police gunsmith from a midwestern state patrol who I met on a gun forum and he ironed out most of the problem but it still fouls up once in a while.* For carry, I choose the 23 over the Sig just because it's lighter and no other reason.* I shoot both manufacturers guns equally as well.* I've owned several HK's over the years but always traded them but kept the Glocks and Sig.* Don't know why really, just never took to them, but there is nothing wrong with HK, they are a very good company with a nice product line up.* Chalk it up to personal preference.* Oh, I was a hair away from taking a job at Sig in New Hampshire last year.* From what I saw, thay have their act together.* They had a decent floor staff in assembly and the custom shop with a mgt. group that cares about the product.* But back to the subject...try to shoot anthing you are interested in and plan to buy, and choose the one that's right for you.* Don't base your choice on what others like, listen to them, but you'll have to live with it later.* And you didn't mention why your friend carried a Sig off duty although I know several LEO's that do also.* I never asked why so I can't answer for them.

[gearloose]

I have owned guns by all three companies, they all make some great guns, Sig is currently making some dogs, not so with Glock and HK. If you are happy with Glock and have purchased some accessories(Holsters etc) you should stay with Glock.
Glock accesories are generally less expensive than Sig and HK stuff.
If you ever have to have anything repaired for any reason Glock wins hands down for customer service. HK will treat you like crap and Sig is a little better.
Last but not least a new Glock is $550-600, a Sig $650-800, and HK $700 up.
I have seen too many shooters chase the perfect gun wasting thousands of dollars in the process. Select the gun that fits your hand and spend your time and money on training and practice.

[Jumpmaster]

Please nobody lynch me for saying this...the following only comes from my own direct experience and that of others I've gone to the range with. I posted in another thread about Glock reliability, so I won't rehash that here in too much detail except to say that in my experience from what I have directly witnessed, Glocks have the highest extract and feed failures of any other handgun I've ever shot, bar none. This was with several different weapons and several models. Also, extraction and feed should function properly independent of how the weapon is held. Someone once told me I should have a death grip on it to feed properly. Umm....no. Wrong answer.

I have an HK but not a Sig...I think Sigs are fine handguns. I love the HK too, of course...I don't think I'd trade my HK for a Sig, but I don't have any problem with the Sig. If I had enough money for another handgun, I would strongly consider the Sig.

Sorry, that's as unbiased as I could do it. We all have experiences with things like this and those experience shape our opinions. Your best bet is to go out and shoot them and see what you prefer...if you like Glocks and they work for you, that's great! Try the Sig and HK too...buy all three!!! :)

JM-99

[greencobra]

Also, extraction and feed should function properly independent of how the weapon is held.* Someone once told me I should have a death grip on it to feed properly.* Umm....no.* Wrong answer.


I have only experienced this with a Colt 1911.* You have to shoot this with a stiff wrist,* especially with the old military versions and their heavy recoil springs, but old timers would put the white knuckle grip on.* I think that's why it got the rep it did from people who had experience using them in the service.

Back to topic, I've never had this happen with any of the 3 handguns mentioned in this topic, Sig, Glock, or HK.* All this stuff is pretty reliable and remember, all 3 manufacturers are used by a ton of law enforcement agencies in the US as well as certain military units.* They don't buy them because they look pretty, they have to work.

[FlipMag]

They don't buy them because they look pretty, they have to work.


But if you ARE looking for pretty - SIG SAUER wins! (imho)

[Dandrop]

Like Flipmag and Marlin4570, I own a Sig 225. I also own an HK P7M8.

I love them both but i think my Sig 225 has an edge over the HK P7. Both are solidly built, fit and finish are superb. I feel that the sig is easier to shoot and hand fatigue is less than the HK P7. The sig is IMHO more reliable to shoot.

But if you are looking for pretty, the HK P7 is definitely it. I have no in-depth personal experience with any other model HK though.

[JimH]

... in my experience from what I have directly witnessed, Glocks have the highest extract and feed failures of any other handgun I've ever shot, bar none. ...

I had my Glock 34 jam on me once, but that was after putting over 2 cases (2000 rounds) of ammo through it without cleaning it. Other than that one time, it has never jammed in all the years I've been shooting it.

My current favorite gun to shoot is a Springfield HD .357 Sig (http://www.galleryofguns.com/ShootingTimes/Articles/DisplayArticles.asp?ID=6570). The bullet goes supersonic right out of the barrel making it sound like a much bigger gun. The one shot take down rating is just slightly less than a .357 magnum. This gun is just great fun to shoot. I've never had a jam with it. If you are unfamiliar with the .357 Sig cartridge, it is basically a 9 mm bullet in a necked down 40 cal casing.

[Stormdrane]

I bought my first Glock 17 back in '91. It was nice, I kept it for a few years before going to a Ruger GP 100(.357). Having that for a few more years, I thought about going to a Glock in .40 caliber and noticed the HK USP Compact .40 in the display case next to it. Once I had it in my hand, I knew I wouldn't go back to the Glock. Since I bought the HK('99 or '00 I think)I've enjoyed it more than any of the pistols I've owned and the others I've test fired including the Sig. You really have to handle and fire a variety to find what's best for you. Luckily the gun store/range near me has always had a variety to rent and test fire on the range before buying.

[Crocodilo]

I cannot compare them, but I do own a Sig Pro 2009 (9mm) and love everything about it, except for the fact that it has a rather poor trigger action, more alike a plastic toy than a proper handgun.

In the past I was assigned an HK P7 (for a six months tour in Bosnia), and even though it was akward, it was a fantastic gun!

[loveit]

Wow. You're asking about three great gun makers. I have shot 9mm models from each. I'm all about buying the one that feels best to shoot. For me, that was a Sig. I went to a range and had the opportunity to shoot many before buying. Let us know which you enjoy shooting most!

[rusty edge]

Thanks everybody for the great replies! :smitten:

My cop buddy is going to let me shoot his Sig .40 sometime soon, and I have done some more research using advise from this forum. I Have ruled out HK due to the price difference. Also, due to some replies here I am going to "look" into another Glock even though I initially wanted to try other brands. (If it works, it works, right?) Even though I am convinced by all the great things I have heard about Sig, I am really looking foward to trying one out.

I apologize in advance for this next question, I know it has been done to death, but I want to ask from my own unique angle..... If I already own .40 and also want to try another caliber, what would you suggest; 9mm or .45?
There are enough 9mm vs .45 threads on the internet to keep one busy for hours of reading, but I have had such good luck with the intelligent, unbiased responses here I wanted to ask again with some of my input:)

Okay, I like .40 alot. It feels powerful, mid priced, and pistols chambered in it usually have good capacity (compared to alot of .45s). Could anybody give a description of recoil comparing 9mm, .40 and .45? I ask because I can comfortably handle the recoil of my Glock 23, and shooting 200-300 rounds at the range dosn't leave me sore or anything, but it takes me a few precious seconds to reset after every shot, making sighting and firing the weapon relatively slow. I feel that in a self defense situation I would not be able to fire the weapon quickly enough again in the event that my first round misses etc. I have read that 9mm is light enough of a recoil to qucikly reset after every shot, making double taps easy. I have also read that .45s have more of a "push" recoil, compared to the "snappier" recoil of a .40, making the .45 easier to reset.
I am looking for a combination of stopping power with ease of rapid firing control. Any thoughts, or suggestions are highly appreciated!

[JimH]

One thing to consider if you shoot a lot, is cost. It cost less than half as much to shoot a 9mm as a .45. Also the 9mm is a much more common worldwide cartridge, so it's easier to find great sales.

I suggest again that you take a look at the Springfield XD series guns or read some reviews. My local range has them to rent. I have 2 Glocks and an XD, and if I could only keep one, it would be the XD.

[0dBm]

With this in mind I would like a true, unbiased opinion of these three gun manufacturers.

An opinion about the manufacturers might invariably be outside the scope of this BB. Their financial health and prospect for investment is likely best discussed elsewhere. :P

Kiddin' aside, I have owned a Glock Model 19 9mm, Sigarms P229 .40 S&W, & H&K USP .40 S&W. What I describe are my own experience with the these particular models and their unique serial number.

The Glock had the pre-ban 15 and 2, extended capacity 17-round magazines and the Sig had 3 pre-ban 12-rounders. The H&K had one 10-rounder.

I owned and practiced with the Glock the longest. I carried the Sig far more frequently. I sold the H&K within 6 months to a younger family member so that he could be armed as well. It fit his larger hands better.

The Glock has a 22 degree grip angle; the Sig, 17, and the H&K was closer to about 18. Like the Sig better and I carried it more often because of that.

The Glock sits lower in the hand, the Sig the highest, and the H&K in between.

The Glock is the lightest and the Sig and H&K about the same.

With Corbon 115-grain JHPs at 1300 FPS the Glock is not nearly as "snappy" with this hot cartridge as other 9mm all-metal handguns such as the Browning P-35 (aka Hi-Power). The Sig is a bit bruising for me with the 155 and 180-grain bullets so I stick with the fast moving 135-grain varieties such as those made by Corbon. The H&K particularly liked the heavier bullets from Speer.

The Sig is the most accurate, H&K second, & the Glock a distant third.

There is far too much white in the sights of the Glock and H&K; only OK on the Sig. I will someday replace the sights on the Glock and Sig with Wayne Novak's famous Combat Sights with tritium.

The stock grips on the Sig were replaced with Hogue combat rubber grips.

I added a piece of skateboard tape on the grip of the Glock and on each side of the Sig just above the slide serrations for extra grippjing surface.

I replaced the too-light 5lb. stock trigger spring with the 8lb. "Nu Yauck" trigger for extra measure of safety in the Glock. I will install the Short Trigger on the Sig when funds become available.

I have carried the Glock in various leather IWB, OWB, & shoulder holsters. The Sig has been carried almost exclusively in a strong-side, thumbreak, detail molded, pancake holster with matching dual magazine carrier and heavy-duty combat cowhide belt.

When in the woods, the Glock is my choice. In the urban environment, the Sig.

When I did carry the Glock in an IWB holster, it was carried Israeli style; no cartridge chambered and with the 17-round magazine.

Although I did train extensively with the H&K, I did not favor its double action AND single action w/cocked and locked capability. I found this capability in 1 handgun too much. If I wanted to carry a single action, I would chose the Hi-Power and the various 1911s that I own. If I desired a traditional double action, I reach for a highly modified 2nd Generation S&W 659 with modified with the ultra-hot .356 TSW cartridge.

H&K is a fine handgun and the only reason that I still do not own it is that it is a bit large for my average hands.

I could write another 5000 words about each of these handguns but my hands are already sore. :(

[rusty edge]

Thank you for your detailed post 0dBm! Great comparisons about the grip angle, accuracy, and recoil there. You bring up a great point about Glocks accuracy being a distant third, I hear resoundingly about Sigs improved accuracy over the Glock. It startled me to find I could shoot a 1911 more accuratly the first time than my own Glock I have put hundreds of rounds through :(
This is off topic to the thread, but any round prefernces for .40? I have shot 135 grain, 160 grain and 180 grain; but never really took the time to distinguish the differences between the rounds. Do you think a lighter 135 grain round will benefit in recoil/resetting enough to make up for its decrease in power?

[0dBm]

This is off topic to the thread, but any round prefernces for .40? I have shot 135 grain, 160 grain and 180 grain; but never really took the time to distinguish the differences between the rounds. Do you think a lighter 135 grain round will benefit in recoil/resetting enough to make up for its decrease in power?


My .40 caliber cartridge preferrence is the fast Corbon 40 S&W 135 GR. JHP 1325 FPS/526FTLBS in the Sigarms P229. I will go to the 40 S&W 150 GR. JHP 1200 FPS/480FTLBS in the coldest winter months when more layers of clothing are generally worn and the deeper penetration of heavier bullets is needed. I do not care for the 180-grain varieties of any manufacturer.

The lighter weight bullets, regardless of caliber, of cartirdges designed for and fired in handguns, in the faster velocities tend to "snap" in my wrists more than the any other combination. The heavier bullets, comparitively, tend to "pound" on the palm of my hand; making for less frequent range sessions, increased pain, and, therefore, loss of my efficiency.

I can compensate for the snap by strengthening my shooting wrist and and a tighter hold, but I can do little about the severe pounding.

Much has been written about handgun cartridge stopping power, however, empirical data leaves a lot to be desired. There is, still, not enough conclusive data to about the effects of one bullet weight, size, shape, and profile.

The current vernacular about handgun bullet stopping power is a calculation of bullet weight, velocity, and bullet type. The higher velocity, the greater the kinetic energy if comparing one bullet type and weight. Variations in stopping power WILL occur in this calculation if the bullet weight and type is introduced. I can write another 10,000 words on this topic alone.

The higher the weight of the bullet, the more energy is expended just to get it out of the chamber and barrel of the firearm. This is what the shooter feels.

Bullet shape has much to do with its ability to stop a moving target. Hollow point bullets are generally accepted to dump more of its kinetic energy ON the target if they can be propelled at sufficient velocities so that the bullet shape can expand quickly (mushroom), create a larger primary wound channel, and create a larger secondary wound channel before exiting the target or ceasing to move within the target.

I could write another 10,000 words on this...

I hope I sufficiently expressed my preferrence for lighter, faster moving bullets in my handguns.

[happygunner]

Make sure you look at the S.A. XDs They are really setting the standards for handgun quality. ;)

[saniterra]

I have tried Glock and did not like the grip angle. I tried the HK compact and did not like the grip roughness. Ended up with Sig and now have a p226 and p229, both with 9mm, 357Sig and .40 S&W barrels. I am very satisfied with my choices, but I would like to try the HK 2000. Among the premium brands, I find pistol preferences to be very personnal for the most part as opposed to any obvious differences in quality.

[jallis]

i have shot all three manufactures weapons listed here over the years. i have shot 9mm, 40s&w, 45acp, etc...
most if not all weapons purchased have some issues. mostly very minor, but some have major issues. most issues i've dealt are of a personal nature. it is always something that i either dislike or like and want to change about that weapon.

in stock form all these weapons are basically good out of the box, but naturally all could be made to perform much better thru user shooting styles, ammo types, and of course customization.

it is thru customization that most put their personal touch into the weapon. examples.... grips, sights, barrels, triggers, etc.. i can go on and on.

i've shot thousands of rounds thru hk usp, sig, and glock. i have come away liking the glock 21 the best. why? the 21 fits me very well. again thsi is a "Personal fitment" thing. i am most comfortable with the glock. i find the glock very easy to strip, clean, and reassemble. i have found customizating the glock to be the easiest among the three.

again the advice given above to go to the range and rent all the weapons you are looking at with a variety of ammo types is the best way to find the "right one" for you. forget the cost factor for now, just go and shoot them.

[JonSidneyB]

I have a Glock 19, I have had Sigs in the past, I have not shot an HK but would like to.* Sorry that I have to say I like something not on the list.* I like the CZ-75 better than any of them even though the Glock 19 is a bit more size efficient. Again I have no experience with the HK.

[jggonzalez]

Like some of the others have said, all three are great guns. I'd suggest looking at the Kahr pistols too. I have two (K9 and MK9) and they're both accurate, utterly reliable with anything I feed them, and look nice too. I haven't tried a Springfield, but I've heard good things about them two. Isn't picking out a new gun fun?

As for .9mm vs .45, I'd go with 9mm. Your .40 will do the same job as a .45, so there's really no point performance-wise. Also, 9mm is cheap, especially at Wal-Mart, so you can get in more range time.

Good luck and have fun!

[saniterra]

I have a Glock 19, I have had Sigs in the past, I have not shot an HK but would like to. Sorry that I have to say I like something not on the list. I like the CZ-75 better than any of them even though the Glock 19 is a bit more size efficient. Again I have no experience with the HK.


The CZ's are great firearms, especially in the 9mm's. Well-made, accurate, good ergo's and can often be found new for around $400.

[fubar]

I have two Sigs. p228 /9mm/13 round and p220/.45/8 shot/stainless. Both with the DA/SA decocker lever. I shoot the hell out of them.

I dislike the style of Glock , the aesthetics & look. Sigs are more tasteful , IMO.

Using a decock lever is something you must ingraine very well. It's not hard , no harder than flipping the safety on a 1911 , but make sure it's part of your ritual. Most Government doesn't believe it's agents/officers/troops can handle it so they are switching to Glocks with heavy pulls - don't want that gun to ever go bang I guess.

[Yooper]

I own a Glock 19 and an HK P7M8.* I've had the Glock much longer and was always pretty happy with it, until I got the HK.* I was never really happy with my accuracy with the Glock, and now that I've been carrying and shooting my HK quite a bit I've learned that it wasn't just me - the Glock just does not shoot accurately for me.* I can slow-fire 1" groups with my HK at 10 yards, for example, reliably, over and over, but I have yet to get better than 3" groups from the Glock at this distance, and usually I have some huge flyers that are way off.* It just doesn't fit me for some reason.* I tried a Glock 17 recently and had exactly the same results - my dad and I were shooting at tin cans and neither of us could hit them reliably at 15 yards.* After getting pretty frustrated, I put down the Glock and drew my carry weapon, the HK, and easily blew away nine cans with nine shots.* This clinched it for me.

I've learned a lot from this exercise.* If you have the opportunity I strongly recommend that you fire each prospective purchase extensively and learn what you like and what works for you.* If you could borrow a gun for more than one range session this would be ideal.* Unfortunately this is often difficult to do.

I was planning on buying a small revolver to complement my Glock for the times it's too bulky and heavy for carry, but the HK is flatter, if heavier, and I shoot it so well now and it's so intuitive that I don't feel comfortable with anything else, so I just carry the HK now, all the time.

Regarding caliber, I chose 9mm for many reasons, not the least of which is that practice ammo is dirt cheap and therefore I shoot a lot more.* This practice has made me a much better pistoleer.* A well placed 9mm round will beat out a miss with a .45 ACP any day, no arguments...

I still want a .45 though, mostly just for fun.* I might carry it in the woods too, again just for fun.


I'm NOT saying ANYTHING bad about Glocks here, I think they are fine weapons, they just don't fit my hands and the way I shoot somehow...

[jallis]

after rereading some of the post here i have notice that there are some definite loyalties behind current brands--->then models--->and in some cases ammo sizes.

take me for example, i love my glock 21. i've made it into for me a perfect shooter. is it stock? no. if it was stock i think it would be only a fair target capable weapon.

thru the military i have shot alot of stuff from small caliber to extreme overkill... handgun wise i would stand behind the h&k mk23. yes it is rather big.. yes it is a 45 cal.. but i must say this weapon is extrmemely accurate given the right tools and tuning. civilian wise the h&k usp 45(full size) is an excellent shooter.

ammo wise i have settled on the 45 cal round. i find it very satisfying to shoot. i've used ultra light to very heavy loads with the glock. on an average visit to the range i go thru 300 rounds of varius loads.

again no matter what weapon you choose, you the shooter will be the ultimate decider on how well or how bad you shoot. if you are new at shooting, get professional training. it can make the difference in you enjoying yourself or putting the weapon away and rarely ever using it.