FID's in Massachusetts

[bexteck]

I am 20 years old and about to attend a hunter safety course in preparation for getting an FID. In reading about the different types (restricted, standard, class B, class A), I would like to eventually get a class A so that I can carry large capacity weapons and carry them concealed. I know that to qualify for a Class A I need to be at least 21, but I am unclear about the other requirements. Most of the sites I have seen seem to suggest that to recieve a class A license, you need to have a valid reason for needing to carry a large capacity firearm which suggests that a Class A permit is not something that is easy to get.

Can anyone comment on how easy or hard it is to qualify for a Class A permit, preferably one recieved since 1999 when Massachusetts changed their gun laws.

Thanks

[Jumpmaster]

I have a friend from Groton, MA. Don't count on getting a permit.

JM-99

[Bruiser]

I live a little south of Boston (in one of the hardest cities to get one no less) and I have a class A LTC. All I can say, is good luck. Some towns are a little more lenient than others in giving out LTC's, but not many. The only reason I got mine was because I was previously a LEO where I used to live. As it is, I'm not so sure they'll renew my class A next year when it's up. Massachusetts is not a very firearm friendly state. Without a valid reason for needing a concealed carry license, you'll probably end up with a class B, or at best a class A for large capacity, but with a carrying restriction of some sort.

[bexteck]

Even though I live in Massachusetts, I am just about as far from Boston as you can get.* My town is about 20min from the New York border, and has under 1000 people with a population density of 26 per square mile.* There are quite a few hunters here for the various seasons, including my father who holds a Class A permit with no restrictions.* I would imagine we would be a pretty gun friendly area for Massachusetts, but since my father is the only person I know who has a Class A permit, and he got his 30 years ago, I don't know what the current state of things is.

A pretty good (and easy to claim) reason for having a handgun here would be protection from bears while in the woods, not a week ago I drove into my driveway and had a 350lb black bear in the middle of my front lawn.* They usually avoid people, but if you come too close to a mother with cubs, or a bear thats just ****ed off, your in trouble.* This wouldn't be an arguement for concealed carry though.

[greencobra]

That's a good question and there's no answer. As was said, it depends on the city or town you live in. I live 12 miles north of Boston and we don't seem to have much problem. They follow the law and issue if there's no valid reason not to. Other citys around us are shut down tight. The law says the Chief is the issuing officer but they usually deligate it to someone else. Don't go in yelling it's your right as an American, that turns them off quick.

When they changed the permits to High Cap for concealled carry, I know people who were turned down for renewal even though they had a "for all lawful purposes" permit for years. Others were forced to jump through hoops, attend classes, and do a live fire test. In my case, when it was time for renewal, they just changed it over, no problem, to the new High Cap Class A.

All I can say is good luck to you.

[Bruiser]

You can find some good information at http://www.goal.org/ also. They have some really good info on Mass firearms information.

[TKC]

I have a MA. CCW Class A. The Police Officer that I filled out my initial paperwork with offered me the Class A. That is how I got mine. Renewing, by the way was more of a Pain than actually geting the permit in the first place. I had taken in my certificate from the NRA Saftey Course, and the certificate from the Tactical 1 handgun course I took, as well as my other permits from various states.

[webley445]

No offence, but man I'm glad i live in Fl.

[greencobra]

No offence, but man I'm glad i live in Fl.

Actually, we have it better than others.* I lived in Colorado 10 years ago and not too many people had CC permits.* It was at the whim of the county sherriffs and none of them wanted to start a trend.* Leo's of course had them as well as armed security.* Near as I could tell, with exception of LEO's, if you needed a firearm for your job, the permit was good only for work hours.* Restriced I guess is the word.* They wanted at the time a large application fee, $150 comes to mind, which was non refundable if you were denied a CC.* You could carry openly without a permit but try doing that down in produce at the local Piggly Wiggly.* And I've never taken to the gunslinger carry method.* I'm more of a out of sight person.* Just before I left the state to come back east, I was going to challange the system and started the paperwork.* I'd be interested to know if they loosened up any since I left.

I remember just hitting the state when I moved and I found a local gunshop.* The owner's telling me I was lucky to get get out of Massachusetts with all the restrictive gun laws.* I still can see the look on his face when I pulled a valid Mass. concealed carry permit.* And a little jab from me..."you got one of these?"

Yeah, we have it bad, but others are worse off.* It's not gonna get better either.* What really bothers me is the Mass compliant bullcrap the AG puts on us.* Anything made after 1998 I believe, has to be approved by the AG's office and it has to have certain safety features like a loaded indicator and viabable safety for semi auto's.* There's a bunch of stuff like that.* We can't buy new Seacamps, Springfield Armory, Wilsons Combat and a slew more.* Some companies make changes and submit stuff for approval, other companies can't be bothered.* We can buy the older stuff, it's grandfathered, but proof of manufacture date has to be provided at the time of sale by either sales slip, sate/fed paperwork, etc.

I'm pretty much thankful we have what we have cause I see no relief in sight.* Only going to get worse.

*

[greencobra]

Here's a link from a local gun shop that some of you might like to see at your leasure.* This guy runs one of the best web sites I've seen.* You can see the stuff we can't buy in Massachusetts, among other stuff, by finding it in one of the boxes at the top of his home page and clicking.* Some might find it interesting even if you don't live here.

http://www.fsguns.com/homepage.html

[bexteck]

Quick Update.

Attended the first of two sessions of the hunter safety course yesterday.* The instructors said that getting a class A LTC should not be a problem in this area as long as you do not live in the city of Pittsfield.* Pittsfield is known for a relatively high crime rate and a large amount of drug activity, but luckily I don't live there.* Next week I will ask them if it would be better to apply for an FID right away, and then when I turn 21 to apply for a class A LTC or to just wait until after my birthday to apply for the LTC.* If anyone has any opinions on this I like to hear them.



No offence, but man I'm glad i live in Fl.


I like the area of MA I am in, but a lot of our laws do suck, not to mention our current govenor.* I prefer the winter to the summer anyway, and as they say where I come from... "In the Berkshires, we have 9 months of winter and 3 months of very poor sledding."

[Bruiser]

Click on section VI (or scroll down just over half way). http://www.packing.org/state/massachusetts/#localities

This should give you a decent indicator of which cities/towns may be harder to acquire a class A LTC.

BTW, my city is one of the bold black one's. They're not joking when they say it's hard to get.* :(

[greencobra]

OOppps, my first post went somewhere into the galaxy.

Anyway, my city is in red, didn't realize we were so restrictive. Things change fast.

[bexteck]

My town is listed in grey, so there is no information on it. Probably only a few applications for FID's/LTC's per year anyway.

[Co_Outdoorsman]

Actually, we have it better than others.* I lived in Colorado 10 years ago and not too many people had CC permits.* It was at the whim of the county sherriffs and none of them wanted to start a trend.* Leo's of course had them as well as armed security.* Near as I could tell, with exception of LEO's, if you needed a firearm for your job, the permit was good only for work hours.* Restriced I guess is the word.* They wanted at the time a large application fee, $150 comes to mind, which was non refundable if you were denied a CC.* You could carry openly without a permit but try doing that down in produce at the local Piggly Wiggly.* And I've never taken to the gunslinger carry method.* I'm more of a out of sight person.* Just before I left the state to come back east, I was going to challange the system and started the paperwork.* I'd be interested to know if they loosened up any since I left.

It's a whole new state since ya left... Take a firearms basic course, pay the fee (forgot how much so were'nt to bad...) wait on finger print check and viola you can carry... It's gone to a statewide system and now it's a "shall issue" state... no longer need to prove a need...

;D

[greencobra]

It's a whole new state since ya left... Take a firearms basic course, pay the fee (forgot how much so were'nt to bad...) wait on finger print check and viola you can carry... It's gone to a statewide system and now it's a "shall issue" state... no longer need to prove a need...

;D

Wow, I guess! How did that get through the state legislature? Who initiated the bill? Was it put on the ballot at election time?

I'll tell you, that was the way I thought it was there when I moved west. I got one big surprise. I lived in Pueblo, spent 3 nights at the Fairgrounds taking a course in basic safety and hunter safety with 40 cub scouts so I could get my conservation certificate to get a hunting license. I was two years shy for the grandfather clause age cut off for not having to take the courses. But, they honor the CO certificate here in Massachusetts so I'm glad I got it.

[Co_Outdoorsman]

Hunters safety does not count towards a CCW... I am not sure of all the politics but there was a sherriff out on the plains that was giving CCW's to anyone that would make the trip and passed the background check... Now if we can get away from the stupid knife laws...

Back to the topic... check this out...

www.packing.org

[greencobra]

Nothing comes up for me.

[bexteck]

Hunters safety does not count towards a CCW

If your talking about MA, the instructors have told us that the hunter education course will be acceptable for CCW, and are recommending anyone over 21 to apply for one instead of for a class B LTC. They did mention that there have been instances when people have been told they needed to take a handgun course before they would be issued a CCW, but only in certain locales.

From what it sounds like, these places do not want people to be carrying, and are doing everything they can to discourage it. In my case, even if I don't need to take a handgun course for a CCW, I will anyway. Carrying a handgun will probably be the biggest responsibility I have ever had, since it allows you to use deadly force with relative ease, and I want to make sure I get plenty of training before I am put in a position where I may have to use it.

[greencobra]

He's talking about Colorado. I took the Firearms Safety and Hunters Safety courses together in one shot in Colorado. So far, and I haven't needed to take a course here in Mass for my LTC CL. A, they would honor the Colorado certificate if I had to go to a safety class. Now, it's dated Oct 2006, so the grey area is....is it too old?

You always apply for the Hi Cap CL A first. If you get a CL B, you might not be able to change it later on and it's pretty restrictive. A lot of people apply for the CL B because it's easier to get. I did that 35 years ago too. I went to the Chief of my city to change it midway through before it expired. He wouldn't but told me he would change it when it was time for renewal. Getting to see him at renewal time was the problem, the Sgt on duty kept blocking me from seeing him. I was lucky, once I did get in, he remembered and changed it to "Life and Property" and then "All Lawful Purposes."

At the gun shop, we had a lot of customers under 21 with a LTC which they could get at 18. The law was funny and I can't say if it's been changed. They could buy handgun ammo on it but couldn't buy a handgun until they were 21. BUT...they could Blue Card a handgun. Go figure.

For the folks who don't know about that, that's a private sale. Damn, who makes up this stuff?

[samson722]

Yeah, I'm totally bummed. I can very easily get my LTC out in my neck of the woods, but I'm not staying here long. I've grown up here, but after school, my job may very well take me out to the most non-CCW friendly place in the world...California. LA, no less. I've been talking to a lot of gun owners out there, and it's definitely tough to get a CCW, but it's possible. I'm sure going to try if I find that there's any hope for me. The process is real expensive, and they make you qualify with all your handguns (you can only have 3 on your CCW). Even though it's a statewide permit like everywhere else, if I change counties, then I have to reapply for a new CCW within 90 days under the new sheriff, who may for any reason deny my request for issuance...politics...do we have a hateful disdain smilie? >:( that's as close as i'll get, apparently. I'm hoping to get it, but we shall see what happens when/if I get out there.

[greencobra]

Sampson, my attitude is apply for your MA LTC.* If you get it, it would only help you in your quest of obtaining a CA license.* You have a document to show the issuing sheriff you could carry in one of the most gun restrictive areas in the country.* It's almost like a resume.*

That was my ace in my hunt for a Colorado CC license.* You wouldn't believe what a big deal it was for people when they saw it.* Jaws would drop with amazement, for real.

Just my opinion.*

[greencobra]

Sampson, my attitude is apply for your MA LTC.* If you get it, it would only help you in your quest of obtaining a CA license.* You have a document to show the issuing sheriff you could carry in one of the most gun restrictive areas in the country.* It's almost like a resume.*

That was my ace in my hunt for a Colorado CC license.* You wouldn't believe what a big deal it was for people when they saw it.* Jaws would drop with amazement, for real.

Just my opinion.*

[greencobra]

Being a bonehead this morning. Just like quoting myself I guess.

[TKC]

I am happy that I got mine!!

[samson722]

I would apply, but the matter's only complicated by the fact that I'm a student in Boston, with a permanent residence in western mass, but i'll only be out here for another 2 weeks before school. i'm not sure what i should do about it. any thoughts?

[bexteck]

samson,

I agree with greencobra for a few reasons. First you said that your job may very likely cause you to relocate. If for some reason it does not, you have your LTC for use in MA. If you do end up in CA, having a permit from MA may help you get one out there. It may not, but if having a CCW is important to you then you should do everything you can to make it happen. Wouldn't want to be refused a CA permit and always be wondering if having one from MA would have made a difference.

[fubar]

Latecomer to this thread - sorry.

Packing.org & FSguns have already been mentioned. As was GOAL. all valuable sources of info.

Ma. Has 4 classes of licenses - Chemical spray , Class C - long guns only, Class B- long guns and handguns 10 shots and less with no carrying concealed and Class A. - defined as "License to carry high capacity firearms"
which does not actually even say Concealed - but no one has pushed it in court yet...

Speaking of court : There aren't any official restrictions. There are "Reason for issuance" which may be hunting , competition, or Protection. But they are not limitations on what you do with it after that. it was the reason they issued it , not a restriction on the " License to carry High Capacity Firearms . " SO it doesn't really matter what it says as long as it says Class A.

I live in Marblehead. I expected to be intimidated and harrasssed , questioned and hassled. I went to the police and said , " I am about to inherit a high capacity handgun . What do I need to do to keep it ?"

The Chief of Police has delegated the job to a Leiutenant. He is proffessional and friendly. He walked me through the appllication question by question. Warned me that misinformation anywhere - even if it not a disqualifying event would disqualify me. Those events are the Federal Standards - Dishonorable discharge , felony conviction , crazy , drug addict ... Same as everywhere in the USA.

The next step is to take a recognised safety class. Before this new hunter safety deal , which hasn't started yet AFAIK , the ONLY class there is is the Handgun safety class. Even if all you want is a permit to buy a can of mace you need to take the handgun class. Private citizens run these classes , as does the NRA and most gun club/ranges. Where you will be told - " Even if all you want to do is shhot clay pigeons or buy a can of mace , apply for the LTC to keep your options open. "

After the class , Mine was a few hours of lecturing in a guys living room , and 45 minutes at the range , A certificate is sent in the mail.

Then a date is set for the Application appointment. Wherupon you will be fingerprinted and have your name & number run through the FBI criminal database and the State Police system as well. You will be pass/failed on the spot. We also have this new space age system that will scan your trigger finger print into a database to use as a PIN number of sorts to buy handguns from MA dealers. It doesn't always work very well , so they also give you a real PIN Number. I already think I lost mine ....

There is a 40 day limit set by state law for you to recieve the actual ID , which thanks to GOAL is now a plastic drivers License sized card valid for 6 years.

Speaking of Goal ... They are preparing to challenge the BS "add-on's" to the appication - extra questions , letters of recomendation , interogation on "Why do want a gun. " There is no basis for these in State law. So if you have these "extras" in your town contact GOAL - and do us all a favor.

The entire Interview process for me went like this :

"So ... are you going to join a club , or what ?"
" I was thinking about Danvers Fish & Game , but am also interested in taking classes at the Sig arms academy. You ever been there ? "
"Oh , yes. We train there all the time."

When the card came in it read , " All Legal Purposes." Just like I put on the Application.

Now , having said all that. The next town over - Salem - Has an unofficial policy of " No Fooking Way. Denied."
Anyway , that's what happened with me. You milage may vary. IANAL ( learn that one for gun discussions ) but there is some big grey area going on between State Law and Local Discretion. And of course some abuses of authority.

BTW , I went shooting today after work , had a lot of fun at the steel plate range.

[greencobra]

No one will take this to court either. A LTC is issued at the "Chiefs descretion" I've known of people contacting the NRA for help, they won't even respond. GOAL, pretty much the same. Neither will spend money to test this in court. Unless an person has their own means for a lengthy process, you'll never see it in court.

Near as I can remember, when I got my FID and LTC in 1974, the law, and I'm recalling from memory and not quoting, stated a person shall be granted a FID unless something proven in their background suggested reason not to issue. Record of a felony, mental illness, etc. A LTC was granted at, like I said, the chiefs descretion. Which pretty much means even if the issuing officer didn't like your looks, you could be turned down. It's legal discrimination.

[mels]

As a holder of a concealed carry permit in a border state (CT), what steps would I take to persue a non-resident state concealed carry permit in MA?

[Bruiser]

Unless you want to pay $100 for a 1 year non-resident permit that you might get refused for, it might not be worth it. I think you'd also have to apply to the State Police Colonel.

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/140-131f.htm

[TKC]

If memory serves me correctly, you have to do it in person. If you opt for that, I would strongly suggest going to Acton, PD to do it.

[greencobra]

This link pretty much explains non resident LTC's.

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/140-131f.htm

[Bruiser]

My link's cooler than your link! hehe ;D

[greencobra]

Opps :spank: Didn't read obviously. Dope slap coming my way!

[mels]

Ooof. $100.00 a year as unreasonable as that seems would be worth it as often as I travel in around and through MA. I'm there at least once a month, and at $8.33 per month it's less than the cost of breakfast each time.

Still a rip though.

Thanks for the links :)

[Bruiser]

O0

[Manzerick]

i'm in Mass with a Class A "all lawful blahblah" permit and feel the only reason they let me keep it was because I was an Aux Police in another city. Other's I have spoken to seem to feel it is very hard to obtain.

[TKC]

I didn't have any problem getting mine or keeping it, and I was not, nor am I currently an LEO. But I had heard that too about MA. But, I thought I would try. And much to my surprise, I got it!!

[Bob Lindell]

Might want to try this link for Mass information. http://www.northeastshooters.com/

I just called the Firearms Record Bureau in Mass at 617-660-4780 and requested a Non-Resident application. $8.33/month is affordable for peace of mind and to be within the limits of the law.

[cmacclel]

When all the new laws where coming in 5 years or so back I got my Class A LTC. I just renewed last year in Malden without any problems and now it considered a tuff city to obtain one. In fact my mother and father both got there's a year after me along with all my friends. When the new laws came into effect an older friend of mine got his revoked because he had a felony back in the 70's. He was a truck driver and got pulled over and had some caffiene pills which where illegal in Nevada. That was enough to get his permit pulled. He saw a lawyer and tried to fight it for over a year with NO results.


Mac

[Lunal_Tic]

Hey cmacclel,

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/977/welcomerainbowii0.gif to EDCF.

-LT

[Radio]

Class "A" in MA here as well, always had it, they just keep changing the name :) It seems to be a very individual process. I hear of people getting them with no trouble at all and others find it almost impossible without explanation. Always helps to know and work with the Chief though :)

[Peter Atwood]

My Class A is up for renewal in a month or two and I have moved since it was issued. Filed the paperwork with the local chiefs and the state last year so we'll see what happens next. Hopefully it won't be a problem.

[TKC]

I hope it won't be a pain for you either. When I initially received my MA. Class A, it was given to me by Acton PD. When I renewed it here in Dennis, I had to get 3 letters of reference, and have an interview with a Lietenant, AND pay $100! It was a lot less than that , when I got it orginaly. Good luck Peter!!