CZ 52: a viable weapon?

[traveler]

I just wanted to pose this question: is the cz 52 a viable weapon? I ask this question because I am thinking about getting a handgun that would be for emergency evacuation and would be residing in a bug out/ immediate response type bag/ pack.I know that they are inexpensive, about $160 or so here in So-Cal, ammo is available,( including Cor-Bon SD loads) and that it is a strong military sidearm( rugged,reliable) that shoots a high-velocity bullet(1300 fps +/-,flat trajectory, good range)and if you can find the parts, convertable to 9mm(ammo is literaly everywhere).I've read somewhere that a decent, arsenal refinished example will consistantly print on a torso-sized target at 100 meters: true or false?They are LOUD which is not too good indoors(I know, any gun will make your ears ring indoors anyway)but otherwise, it might seem,from the bad guys' perspective that it is a lot bigger a caliber weapon than it really is! I know that there are many other factors to consider here, but I am just touching on what little I know about the gun and its use as an all-around survival back-up unit. It would be backing up my Ruger Sp 101 .357 snubbie if, in fact, I got the chance to grab that before I bail out of town.It would be living in my Bug Out Bag,( I don't have a CCW permit because I live in Southern California, and I am not a retierd cop, actor,polititian,or judge) so regardless of what else I may or may not have, it will be there, and I could always arm someone else if need be.And if I got dis-armed before *****, I'm not out the $522 it cost me for the Ruger. Any info, pro or con ,would be greatly appreciated!

[Lee1959]

A lot of people like the CZ-52. It is older technology but so is my Makarov. Like you said, the caliber is a really decent little caliber, very flat shooting with good velocity. You definitly could do worse,* *a big plus is that it is a Curio and Relic status firearm. From what I understand its weakest point is the firingpin, it is a bit fragile so you would want to pick up a spare or two. The good news is you can buy a much stronger version at Makarov.com. It has a heel clip mag release which some people do not like, but I dont mind it on the Mak. It is just different.*

Makarov.com sells parts, and aftermarket asessories for it. And if you visit the Makarov.com boards you will find a lot of people who use it and can give you really god advice on it.

http://makarov.com/cz52/index.html

[traveler]

Thank you very much for the info, Lee1959

[Makarov]

I would have looked into a Makarov as well, but I guess I'm a bit biased...
One point is that the CZ 52 is SAO, while the Makarov is SA/DA, another is that the Makarov got a simple blowback design with fixed barrel, making it both accurate and reliable. And you can get the Mak in 9mm if you don't want to shoot 9X18.

[Lee1959]

I have never seen a Mak in 9X19 (9MM Nato or 9MM parabellum), is it a custom conversion? I have seen .380, and even .32 NAA but never 9MM. I know there was a Russioan versoin for a hotter 9MM Makarov Cartridge but even that was not 9MM Nato. Interesting, I hope to hear more about it please :).

[JonSidneyB]

There are some conversions that have been to to 9x23. That will make that gun very hot.

[Makarov]

I have never seen a Mak in 9X19 (9MM Nato or 9MM parabellum), is it a custom conversion? I have seen .380, and even .32 NAA but never 9MM. I know there was a Russioan versoin for a hotter 9MM Makarov Cartridge but even that was not 9MM Nato. Interesting, I hope to hear more about it please :).

Well, I was SURE I've seen 9x19mm Makarovs on the Baikal site (http://www.baikalinc.ru/eng/prod/hguns/) but couldn't find it...
Then I checked Makarov.com (http://makarov.com/) because I thought maybe they sold 9x19mm barrels, but again no such luck.
At last I found a reference in their FAQ (http://makarov.com/makfaq.html) about a 9x19mm Makarov:

...The way the 9x19 Makarov works is that the chamber is scored or serrated, the brass gets blown out into those serrations thereby retarding blowback. The result is that the brass is shredded and unusable for reloading, the brass is tossed into low orbit, and the recoil of the gun is horrendous...

So I was right, but I guess they discontinued it because it sucked :idiot2:

[Lee1959]

Interesting, not sure I would want anything in the Mak that hot, you would have to have a seriously heavy recoil spring, I already use a #21 and I believe that a 9x19 or that 9X23 would hammer the slide and frame to death even with that spring. I have heard of things like the barrel scores to retard blowback but they do not ever seem to work well in the end.

A spring heavy enough to dampen that shock would be very problematic for many to work the slide I would think. My #21 is hard enough as it is with the smaller slide and serrations to grip, and many women or smaller men who have shot it complain about this.

[Makarov]

I use the stock spring in my Baikal 442 (It's a IJ-70) but I want a #19. Unfortunaly Makarov.com stopped shipping parts overseas :(
I've got several grips, Makwraps(which I don't use any longer) and the Hougegrips with the imbedded tumbrelease(which I use :))

I want to change the sights to something better, have been looking at the XS sights as a friend has these mounted on both his Glocks, but I'm not sure yet(and have a lot of other stuff to spend money on...)

[webley445]

Anytime I've shot my 52 at the range, I always get at least one person coming over and asking "whats that you're shooting son?".
It makes a big muzzle flash and it is LOUD. Could be an advantage in scaring folks, but then your snubby is going to be loud too.

I wouldn't go with the 9mm conversion for the 52. It consists of a replacement barrel that at times have had reported failures. If you want 9mm, go with one made for it. I have seen Chinese Tokarovs, SAO, made in 9mm for same price range.
(side note: some Maks were made in 9mm from my understanding)

Main downfall to the 52 is ammo. You may be had pressed to find extra ammo if you are in an extended "outage" situation. At least with the SP you can use 38 or 357.
Also it has been reported in the past on mak.com and other sites that there were some surplus ammo being sold that was a hotter load than what was intended for use in the 52. These loads were made for PSH type weapons that also use 7.62x25.
To play it safe I always use S&B ammo for uniform loads that will not wear the sidearm unneccessarily and you get factory dependability.

There are after market slip on grips made to fit or will fit the 52 is the grip is not comfortable to you.
You can aquire decent speed in reloading the arm with practice.
After you emtpy the mag, turn your wrist so that the bottom of grip is up, then use left hand (if you're a righty) and engage the release with your thumb, at same time using your forefinger to snag the lip on the front of the mag. then pull the mag out of the well. Charge a fresh mag, pull back slide, release it and you are charged up again.
As I recall there was a mag release you could get from the mak site too.

The 52 is SAO, but the safety operates just like the 1911, up for safe, press down with thumb to make ready. But the safety lever is smaller that on a 1911, though I never had any real difficulty in its use. There for you could carry it cocked and locked like the 45.
I know some who use the 52 as a "boat" gun. No big lose if lost or succumbs to rust.
I suggest getting 2 spare mags when you buy it.
I would try to see if you can get a better price as I have a C&R FFL* license and can gte them wholesale at $90-100 (no I cannot get one for others-license is for personal use only).

Reference the collector site to become familiar with disassembly. They can be a pain until you get the hang of it.
I've seen titanium or SS firing pins you can get, but the main thing here is DO NOT DRY FIRE. Stock spares can be had cheaply, its up to you. I would suggest downloading any manual or tutorial you can on disassembly to keep with the piece in your bag in case you ever do change the firing pin, though IMHO, it will not be an issue if the arm is used properly and not excessively, YMMV.

Above all else get to a shop and handle one and take a close look to be sure its what you want. Keep in mind it may be a bit much for the uninitiated to handle as it will be load, but kick is negligable.

Here's mine with Hogue grip.
http://members.aol.com/webley445/52.jpg

If all this sounds unlikely for you there are other options in the price range, especially used to go with. Llama 45 or 9mm comes to mind. There are also online sales (auction arms, guns america) that you can buy from and have a gun shop receive them for you. You're problem is that you live in the People's Republic of Cali so alot of arms available elsewhere they will not sell or ship to your state. Take a look at Southern Ohio Guns and Century arms International for such arms that you may be able to aquire thru a shop. If nothing else fun to surf thru their sites.

[traveler]

Thanks for the input, Webley445. I've been looking online alot and can't seem to find any 9mm barrels, or any other caliber for that matter, for one. Just as well, I've read here and elsewhere that most 9mm conversion barrels were made by drilling out and the re-rifling them and that they are weak and prone to failure.As for the ammo in an extended "outage" situation, disscused it with some friends and we came to the conclusion that for the most part you can only count on what you've got on hand, though I will add that .38/.357 is popular,therefor available. I have handled my brothers '52 and I like the weight and profile of it, to bad he can't give me an idea of its shooting ability as he's had it for 4 or 5 months now and has yet to shoot it. Thats insanity! I'd have given it a test drive at the range in the first week!

[webley445]

Have you taken the slide off yet?
I like how the tabs work, but that barel can be a b*tch :laugh:
Get a couple boxes of the S&B and you'll be set.
I woldn't wory bout the HP, this stuff is made for punching hols and bleeding them out.
Plus the FMJ is good for glass or thin metals (i.e. car doors ;))

[HOMELAND SECURITY HAM]

Hi All,

Well after looking at old post's I thought I would comment on this one. The CZ-52 is a super excellent gun with some very very minor flaws, after all nothing is perfect.

First the flaws are as follows 1) it has a cast firing pin that is known to fracture if it is dry fired, 2) The barrel rollers are not hardened, this will cause galling when they wear prematurely as they always do if they are not over lubricated and kept clean 3) the tip of the extractor is known to chip off stopping extraction and it sometimes needs to be filed to stop contact with the rounds during feeding

The good news is Harrington Products makes all three parts for cheap cheap cheap!!

The better news is that the Harrington Products parts are all properly forged, machined and hardened to todays standards. When you replace these parts with the parts from Harrington Products you have an incredible gun for an incredible price and the parts will last the life of the gun.

Another Officer and I purchased these guns on a lark, just for the fun of it, after we read an intelligence bulliten advising that it easily penetrated and defeated most police body armorer. I had no illusions that it would be a good gun as it was Czechoslavokian made low tech in 1952.

**BOY WAS I SUPRISED**! As a police department armorer, I can honestly state that the quality of this gun (after the questionable parts were replaced) is top notch! I would compare the fit and finish and overall manufacturing quality an par with any H&K, Walther, Baretta Glock, ETC... Hands down this is absolutely an incredible gun! The only issue I have with it, is that it has a european style magazine release. Although not my first choice for a regular carry EDC gun it could easily fit the bill. Forget the caliber conversion modifications they are known to make an otherwise reliable gun into an un reliable gun.

In a survival situation although it is not a major caliber (diameter) it is a specialty caliber that balistically rivals some rifle rounds from a hand gun. At 1300 - 1900 FPS depending on the ammo with proper shot placement, the velocity and penetration with this round can be depended upon for putting a deer down. Not too shabby! This gun can also easily handle some of the speciality hot loaded (corosive) machine gun ammo in this caliber, that the Tokorov will not.

Killing power definately YES, stopping power can be questionable as the velocity with this round can cause it to easily penetrate an adversary (and keep on going, like the energizer bunny) with out them even knowing they were hit at first, unless they expierence the velocity shock trauma with the hit. I am sure I would not want to have to take the risk and choose this gun for bear country instead of a .500 magnum revolver. But in all fairness it is an increadible gun with an interesting caliber.

Ammo is available cheaply and in abundance, more so the military style ball ammo, however speciality ammo (hollow point, Mag safe etc....) is also available as well. Old reliable military ammo and military COROSIVE ammo is available in abundance. I personally do not recomend the corosive ammo, as to protect your gun the necessary agressive rapid cleaning steps are not always worth the aggravation. Also **note that dates listed on ammo of this type is not a good indicator that it is not corosive. Although Corosive U.S. ammo was primarily discontinued by about 1953, there is an abundance of COROSIVE 7.62X25 ammo that was made into the late 1980's for the CZ-52.

Depending on your needs or budget I strongly recommend this gun as a great buy, but don't make a BIG mistake, DO THE UPGRADES FROM HARRINGTON PRODUCTS for total reliability. Although I have no expierence with the CZ-75, I can state that if it is of the same quality as the CZ-52, it should also be a great buy, (I think Jon the owner of EDCForums has one) that should also be a testiment for it.

[Brules]

The CZ-52 is a great gun for the money. It's built like a tank, heavy and solid.
Shooting it is like shooting a 30 carbine or 32-20 ( out of a pistol)- it's very LOUD.

[dewildeman]

The first requirement I have for a gun in a bug out situation is that it has readily available ammo, .38, 9mm, .45, .22 or 12ga. Okay, that being said, you should also have a good supply of your own ammo, go can't be assured of being able to get ammo if everyone else needs it too, and you can you it as a trade item for those caught unprepared.

Now that that's out of the way, go ahead and buy one, heck at $160, buy two! Get the parts HS Ham suggested, 6-12 boxes of ammo and some spare mags. Take it/them out and put at least a couple of boxes through it/them and you are GTG.

BTW, the 52 is a ear plug + ear muff gun, it does have a bark!

You have the added plus that your brother has the same gun.

[3fgburner]

I, too, have a Bohemian Flamethrower(tm). I've also got a Tokarev. When buying 7.62x25, get Romanian rather than Polish milsurp. Also, as the guys have said above: If you've got both guns, and run into some of the hot-load Czech sub-gun ammo, do NOT use it in the Tok. That's '52-fodder, only. Unless, of course, you have a PPsH40 or PPS43 subgun or carbine, that is.

[amacman]

Here is the area on a CZ forum that cover the 52 http://www.czforumsite.info/index.php?board=19.0. I have a CZ-75B that I love and intend to get a 52 whenever we happen to cross paths.