How is the Kel Tec .380?

[hatchetjack]

I see the Kel Tec is popular among some of you. I saw one recently and it seemed like a good easy carry piece. I also like the DAO feature. I currently CCW a Taurus M85 but was looking for something a bit lighter than my snubby and hotter than my old reliable .25 auto.

What do you like/dislike, and any reliability failures too.

I also carry full size 1911's and M9's so I'm not looking to get into the caliber debate.

I've had a couple of .380's in the past and grew quite fond of the round.

Thanks,

hatchet-

[gearloose]

The Kel-tec is a good choice.I've sold about 75 of them in the past year or so and have not seen anything that would cause me to distrust them.The main complaint I've heard is recoil but you expect some recoil in a little gun chambered in a real caliber.You won't find a more comfortable gun to carry and I have seen a couple of shooters get really good with them, regularly shooting decent groups at self defense distances. The recommendation from the gun store is buy it,

[Lee1959]

I personally like it very well. It is the one pistol I know I will carry every day, yes I do carry others but this one is just to easy and handy to carry no matter the attire or suituation.

As far as reliablity goes, I have put about perhaps 1000 rounds thru it in practice and so far I have not had any issues whatsoever, even in the normal traditional 200 round break in period. As far as ease of carry, it is second to none. I carry it withthe pocket clip in my right hand pocket, a desantis pocket holster, or even its own little belt pouch. It is invisible even in shorts and no shirt (which I dont do often anymore at 47) and slips into the pocket of a tux or suit jacket like it was not even there.

I had bought the Beretta Tomcat and then saw this one and traded it because it made the Tomcat seem positively large, heavy and bulky. It is in fact so thin and lightweight I was at first worried that it might be uncomfortable to shoot, and this is from someone whos favorite caliber is .44 magnum. But those worries were for nothing.

I would say give it a try at a place you can shoot. The small two fingered grip is not for everyone I think, but it is not onerous to shoot, well some people call it 3 fingers counting either the thumb or trigger finger in the mix, jsut say your pinky hangs out like when drinking tea at a fine English establishment.

[Goldtanker]

The 3AT is a great defense weapon. I have had one for over 2 years and it is my summer carry in the front pocket if I'm wearing jeans (instead of carge pants) in a pocket holster (JS Holster is what I use). It is definitely not a comfortable target gun but neither is it unreasonable. Very light and compact and will digest +P ammo for defense load (not recommended for practice).

[alwilliam]

My wife loves her 32acp and the next gun we buy is going to be a .380 KT.

[GreenArrow]

The Kel Tec .380 is most likley the most comfortable gun to carry IMO i use Remington golden sabers and they feed great in the one i have i have not had any real problems with mine
Also it's one of the simplest guns to dissamble and work on
Here are a couple of good links about them
http://www.1bad69.com/keltec/index.htm
http://www.ktog.org/

[erh]

hatchetjack -
I happen to like (& occasionally carry mine...), but usually go for my LWS (Seecamp) 380, or Rohrbaugh R9s 9mm.

Eric :)

[clipse]

I have only seen and shot one P3AT. It was a bad experience. The frame actually came apart. The plastic cracked in half. The owner sent it to Kel-Tec and the made everything right. A Tech from Kel-Tec said they had never had this particular problem.

clipse

[hatchetjack]

Thanks for all the input folks!

[ScarabDrowner]

sorry for resurrecting this old thread, but I had a question on the P3AT that I didn't feel justified its own thread. I just got back from a local indoor shooting range where I got to pop off 50 rounds through a Ruger P94 .40 S&W. There was a Kel-Tec .32 there, but I was not allowed to shoot it without buying it. >:(
Could someone who has fired both a Ruger P94 and the Kel-Tec P3AT give me a comparison of the recoil between the two? I'm thinking it'd either be less or nearly the same with a P3AT due to both the smaller round and the lighter gun. Any comments, opinions, anecdotes, etc? Thanks. :help:

[bigcozy]

Well, those are two very different guns obviously, but I have fired all three you mention.* The P94 is already a top heavy gun firing a high pressure round.* Even though it is heavier, it will have more perceived recoil.* The recoil you feel has as much to do with the slide snap as the upward reaction of firing the cartridge.* Since the slide is already heavy, with a light frame and a high pressure cartridge, it will have a definite "kick".* The P-3AT (380 ACP) has low pressure round and featherweight slide, so the slide snap isn't as pronounced.* IMHO the P-3AT has very little recoil, in fact I couldn't believe how little kick their was.* I expected a lot compared to the P-32 I had, but only feel a little difference.* Given a choice, I would always take the 380ACP over the 32 ACP since you are giving up almost no size or cost.*

My experience is that the P-3AT has so little recoil that it isn't a factor at all, it does jump, but it isn't an issue to me.* *Now, ymmv because you may not be used to shooting guns and I shoot .44s and 10mm fairly often.

What the P-3AT offers you is a gun you can carry when you can't carry anything else.* I run between 4 and 6 miles a day.* Every ounce makes a difference when you do that, and I can carry a P-3AT with me when I want.* I use the factory provided square zip up cordura case, strap it to my arm, and run head phones out of it like it is a MP3 player.* I can also carry my CCW card in there in case I get hassled by the MAN.* I highly reccomend the factory pocket clip, this turns an already great gun into something in a class by itself.* You can clip the gun to your waistband just like a knife or a light.* It is so light, you will literally forget it is there.* For some people, the 380 isn't enough, but I have been through a couple of shootings and I can tell you, having a gun is the most important thing,not what caliber it is.* I have some high dollar custom 1911's that stay at the house because they are waaaaaaay to heavy.* If you wear jeans, or heavy clothing I can see that, but I live where it is hot and wear dress clothes every day.* The P-3AT can be carried even in the pocket of light weight dress pants.

One other point, I have been CCWing for about 12 years now, and the one thing I can say is there is no gun thin enough or light enough.* Carrying is a pain, and you need the gun you will carry, not the one that stays at home.* When I first got my permit, my smallest gun was a Glock 19, it was about the smallest thing on the market.* Now, I have P-3AT, I will have the new Kel Tec PF-9, and my Glock 27 will the LARGEST of my carry guns.* I no longer have any use for the full size all steel pistols laying around my house, and I am going to eventually sell them.* My Delta Elite, Colt Commander, Sig 226 haven't left my house in a long time.* I was very skeptical about Kel Tec, but I have been won over, and plan to own one of about everything they make.

I will get some pics up in this thread of my first generation P-3AT later tonight.* * *


EDITED to say that I was not involved in the shootings. I was in a parking lot during a three person shootout where I was less than 10 feet from one of the shooters. I was also in a Subway Sandwich during a shooting. I was an observer and not a particpant.

[ScarabDrowner]

thanks for the recoil comparison, that's just what I was looking for. I had already 99.9% decided to get the P3AT, but this was still a big help :thumbsup:

[jtice]

What, no love for the P-11? :p

I have had the P-11 9mm version for a few years now, and it has been great.
I dont like the full pull triggers Kel-Tecs have, but for the size & weight, you cant beat them.

I found the original P32 a bit small, and didnt feel sturdy in my hand, though I never got to fire one.
The P-11 is about as small as I would would to go for a 9mm thats for sure.
My buddy has the P40, and its way to much round for that small gun, and not as controllable.

It has been a reliable gun though, and has been carried in not so ideal conditions.
Tiny bit of surface rust here and there, but nothing out of the ordinary.

I am not familiar with the .380 ACP Round, but it seems that the P3AT would be packing a bit of a punch for its size.
I just cant bring myself to carry anything smaller than a 9mm.

~John

[ScarabDrowner]

thanks for that info... for some reason I had thought the 9mm was smaller than the .380, until I looked it up at Athena Research & Consulting LLC (http://www.ballistics-experts.com/Law%20Enforcement/Ammunition/Caliber%20Selection.htm)
I may have to look into that P-11 now too :-X

[jtice]

The thickness of the P-11 is what makes it a good bit larger than the other Kel-Tecs.
Have to loosen your belt just a bit ;)

Here are a couple crrrrrrappy pics I took of mine, before I installed the belt clip, which I really think makes the gun the perfect EDC.
http://www.jtice.com/albums/Kel-Tec-9mm-P-11/kel_tec_p_11_left.sized.jpg
http://www.jtice.com/albums/Kel-Tec-9mm-P-11/kel_tec_p_11_open.sized.jpg

Here it is with the clip installed, and next to my 59 Series S&W 9mm
http://www.jtice.com/albums/GunCase/IMG_4139.sized.jpg

At one time, the P-11 was the smallest full power 9mm handgun made, it still might be.

~John

[bigcozy]

.380 is roughly the same diameter as a 9mm with a shortened case. In Europe it sometimes called 9mm Kurtz (Short). It is loaded to much lower pressures however.

Smallest 9mm pistol award goes to the Rohrbaugh, which will set you back about a little less than a grand. Second place would be the Kahr PM9, but very close in size is the new Kel Tec PF-9. Just started shipping about a week ago, and word is they are back ordered 20,000 units. Same barrel as the P-11, a little thinner single stack with reportedly much better trigger. Price is the same as the P-11. Check it out at: http://www.kel-tec.com/pf9.html

Also check ktog.org, for all things Kel Tec.

[jtice]

ohhhhhhhhhhhh yea, I forgot about the new single stack 9mm !!!

I would go for that over the .380, unless you are going for as small as possible.

The new single stack 9mm looks really nice.
and has a front rail :)

~John

[TKC]

If I were you, I would get the Seecamp .380 instead of the KelTec.

[RovingArcher]

The Bersa Thunder is the .380 I've been considering.

[powernoodle]

I used to be into Kel-tecs pretty big. Have a P-11 and P-32. Part of the "fun" of owning a KT can be the little bit of fluffing and buffing that is sometimes needed to get them running 100%. Basically entails polishing the ramp, mating surfaces, proper lubing, etc. See www.ktog.org and following the links. With all of the guns I now own, and its plenty, I still carry a P-32 at least once a week when my attire dictates. Its a small caliber, as is the .380, but I wouldn't want to catch a face full of them.

peace

[VWTim]

If I were you, I would get the Seecamp .380 instead of the KelTec.


Those Seecamp's are nice, but twice the cost of a Keltec and they weigh a lot more. Good guns tho. I have my P32 on my most any waking hour. Whether it's my primary or as a BUG.

[JonSidneyB]

Part of me is a little old fashioned,

I know plastic is a great material but I for somereason like wood, metal, glass, things like that.

What I want is a metal gun the size of the Kel Tec that using the browning princible that is not DAO. I would be tickled if it has a CZ type operation system, doube action/single action with a thumb down safety. I know this is strange as I like revolvers but for some reason I like my revolvers to be what they are but my Autoloaders to be standard double action rather than DAO>

I think what does set the Kel Tec guns apart in the super small catagory is that they are not blow backs.

[bigcozy]

Then what you need is a CZ Rami:

http://www.czub.cz/index.php?p=32&idp=1&ids=1&idz=2&lang=en

[mels]

www.seecamp.com

All you really need is right there. :-X

[TKC]

The Seecamp IS the Rolls Royce of pocket guns!! I still stick with my suggestion of get the Seccamp instead of the Kel-Tec; you get a far superior gun in my opinion.

[VWTim]

The Seecamp IS the Rolls Royce of pocket guns!! I still stick with my suggestion of get the Seccamp instead of the Kel-Tec; you get a far superior gun in my opinion.


While I'll agree that they are nice guns, Keltecs are the Honda Civic's of Pocket Pistols. They're cheap, reliable, and a heck of a lot lighter. :)

[TKC]

I have heard from many people that theirs have beenn problematic, and have gotten rid of them. I can't be the only one that has heard of Kel-Tecs being problem children.

[VWTim]

I have heard from many people that theirs have beenn problematic, and have gotten rid of them. I can't be the only one that has heard of Kel-Tecs being problem children.


No, I've heard of it too. But it seems a majority of the problems have either been operator induced. Or could have been fixed with a feedramp polish. The way I see it is that for the price of ~$200, it might need a little post detail work done to it. Now if it was a $400 gun, it should be flawless.

My P32 has been great, granted I polished the ramp before I even shot it.

[Highvalleyranch]

Been through this whole search, and ended up deciding on the Walther PPK. Never looked back!
Very nice, fits in a pocket holster in the front pocket of my Carhart shorts without anyone noticing, (and I am a lean guy).

Function flawllessly and qualified 100% with it, no problem. It is all metal ,so slightly heavier than many of the "plastic" .380's.
The sights are the only flaw with the gun, but OK for a SD type of weapon.

PPK, not the PPKs, and made by Interarms in the 1980's

[JonSidneyB]

I am familiar with the Rami and it is too thick for what I would want it for. I wish Seacamp or NAA had tried to to a little locked breach gun rather than blowback. I know it would be longer but could be very flat.

Actually I would be thrilled if the Kel Tec had a version that was single action capable.

I know in most defence situation double action is fine but I like my guns to be multi purpose. I guess that is because I travel between a very rural area to town daily. The single action capablity I think gives it a little more for non-defence situations.

[loveit]

I shot this Kel Tec gun-- a friend owns one. It is light to carry, but I hated shooting it. The grips were painful when fired I thought. I didn't even empty the clip. I've never fired a Seacamp, but those are very nice from just handling one. I have also looked into the CZ Rami... I wouldn't mind one of those.

[Lee1959]

From what I have read and been told the first Kel-Trec PT380s and 32s had some initial issues with feeding. Polishing the feed ramp was the normal "fix". Newer models seem to have had this issue corrected and are now very reliable from all accounts. I have had mine for a bit over a year, and have had several freinds purchase them since and they are all very reliable so I would trust them, in fact, I do, with my life and my familys life, every time I carry it.

[Craig_PHX]

I bought the original P-3AT. The main pin that holds the slide on would work loose after two or three shots. Then the aluminum insert got chewed up. It was very unreliable. I sent it back to Kel-Tec and they sent me what looked like a new one, it still had the same serial number. They sent me a free magazine for my trouble. This one has been very reliable. It is picky about what ammo I use. Mine hates Winchester white box; it has a flat tip and jams in the P-3AT. It has been 100% with Remington Golden Sabers.

I bought the left handed pocket clip. I clip it on my left side next to my SureFire G2. To draw I grab the top of it like a pocket knife and then grab it out of my left hand with my right hand. It is invisible except when I sit in a chair with an open back. It does have a tendency to rotate on the clip and part of the handle will be visible if I don’t adjust it once in a while. It is as handy as a pocket knife with a clip.

[Goldtanker]

When I carry mine, I use a JSHolsters pocket holster. Front or back pocket - it looks like a wallet.

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l63/Goldtanker/P3AT-JS.jpg

[ront]

I have had the Kel-Tec P3AT for several months now. I have about 100 rounds through it with not one problem to date. I think the Gen1 .380's had a few more problems ans limp wristing can be an issue with these guns also. I love mine!!!

Ron

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v105/ront1/EDC/3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v105/ront1/EDC/2.jpg

[interscape]

hatchetjack -
I happen to like (& occasionally carry mine...), but usually go for my LWS (Seecamp) 380, or Rohrbaugh R9s 9mm.

Eric* :)


:)I have a Chevy but prefer to drive my Bentley or Rolls Royce. :)

[Sun195]

I've had mine (2nd Gen) for about a year and have had relatively few problems. Maybe 200 rounds through it w/o malfunction yet. I'm not very accurate with it far-out (beyond ten yards), but it does fine close-in. I carry it in a Pale Horse backpocket holster and have been pretty happy with this arrangement - works with jeans or dress slacks. Because of its size and weight, it's a gun I'm likely to carry with me (rather than leave in the safe). So, while not perfect, better to have something with you than nothing at all.

[Roadkill Bill]

Guess I'm just old fashion. Smallest thing I carry is a 2.5" S&W M19 w/6 rounds of .357 blow-their-a$$-away magnum. My normal carry gun is a Glock 21 with 14 rounds of .45 ACP. My wife wants one of the 3ATs now. She still carries a .357, too. Maybe if she does get the little Kel-Tek and likes it, I'll take a look at it. I don't remember who said it, but "No one in a gun fight ever wished he had a smaller gun."

[VWTim]

"No one in a gun fight ever wished he had a smaller gun."


While this is very true, but the .380 in your pocket it better than whatever you have stashed in the safe at home.

[TKC]

Well, a small gun in the pocket is better than no gun at all. I LOVE my Seecamp .32.


If you are hung up on caliber, you could always get oone of these: http://www.rohrbaughfirearms.com/

[Lee1959]

You try carrying a S&W .357 or Glock under a tuxedo vest, a pair of shorts at the beach, or just a pair of jeans and a tshirt and you will be soon walking around without a firearm and just carrying a knife. I have tried, and you cannot always hide a full sized handgun. Especially in places like Michigan where if ANY part of the firearm ever shows while you are carrying it, it is considered brandishing and is a felony even with the CCW.

Someone also said, Dont bring a knife to a gunfight ;). Pocket pistols do indeed have their place.

[oceanbeamer]

Well a lot of you people will remember GLENDEL ARMS they merged or were bought be keltec , anyway I had a grendel p12 380 cal which when I look at it looks almost identical to the "new" keltecs,,,I didn't like the pistol . It stoved piped as much as it shot even after a ramp job it wasn,t reliable..I kicked almost as much as my 10 mm longslide auto and with a double stack clip it was reather fat with a short grip...It's long gone and not missed....hope their newer products reflect a few lessons.

[Lee1959]

I have ran probably 3 or 4 hundred rounds thru a PT3AT without a single stovepipe or failure to feed. Of course I do not practice limpwrisitng it or any such thing where it is seting it up to fail like some people do. As far as recoil, its really not that bad, actually is a lot milder than I first thought it would be for such a thin pistol. I would say your experience with their ancestors has not moved on to the later pistols, if my experience is any indication, you should try a new one.

Of course I think a .357 Magnum S&W M19 is a very mild recoiling revolver too... Perhaps I have shot too many full load .44s...

[oceanbeamer]

Thanks Lee for the update,,after checking my post this morning,I guess I should have done a quick spellcheck,,I was dragging from a long day and it showed. Anyway hope your on the money about keltec,,I was very disappointed at the time,,and in all fairness ,,I quess I should give them another chance.

[VWTim]

Thanks Lee for the update,,after checking my post this morning,I guess I should have done a quick spellcheck,,I was dragging from a long day and it showed. Anyway hope your on the money about keltec,,I was very disappointed at the time,,and in all fairness ,,I quess I should give them another chance.


I would. Keltec is already on their second generation of P3AT's and seem to have gotten them right now. Worst case it seems like a ramp polish is all that's ever needed get them to run 100%

[grayelky]

I have heard from many people that theirs have beenn problematic, and have gotten rid of them. I can't be the only one that has heard of Kel-Tecs being problem children.

Yes, I have read all of the reports. Now, here is some actual experience w/ KelTecs (For what it may/may not be worth, I have been carrying a gun for over 30 years):
I have a P40 (40 S&W) I bought prior to September 1998, the serial number starts 55XXX. I have not had any problems with it jamming. I also rarely shoot over 3 or 4 mags at any one time. It does recoil a bit. I have recently acquired a .357 Sig barrel, but have fired it very little. What little I have fired, I like!
December 1999, I bought a P32. I have put over 700 rounds through it, and no problems. I have found the best way to shoot it is just forget the sights exist, and point where you want the bullets to go.
August, 2006, I bought a P3-AT. I have only fired about 150 rounds, but so far, no problems. It does seem to like Speer Gold Dot HP's.
November, 2006, I located a used Hard Chrome P11. Not many rounds fired yet, but so far, no complaints. I have also read the newer KT's seem to have fewer problems than a few years ago.
Like so many other KT fans, I looked high and low for a PF9. When I found one, and compared it to a P-11, I opted not to get it. The size difference is very minimal. The weight difference is about 4 ozs. Due to it being a 9mm, I will carry the little bit of extra weight to get the extra 4 rounds in hand.
I have Glocks, S&W's, a Colt, Charter Arms, Taurus, and a couple of others. Like some of other posters, I have found I stop carrying heavy guns. I almost bought a Seecamp 32 once. I wanted it, and had a decent deal, but I realized I would eventually end up not carrying it due to the weight. I much prefer a .45, and am currently having a discussion w/me about getting one of the small, 25 oz. 45's.

If you are in the Metro Atlanta area, send me a PM, and you can make your own decision about how a KelTec shoots.

[jtice]

Like so many other KT fans, I looked high and low for a PF9. When I found one, and compared it to a P-11, I opted not to get it. The size difference is very minimal.


Thank you, now I can stop thinking about getting the PF9. :P
I have a P-11, that has been very reliable, IF YOU USE KEL-TEC MAGS.
I was thinking of getting the slimmer PF-9, but was expecting it to be a fair bit smaller.

~John

[ront]

I have heard from many people that theirs have beenn problematic, and have gotten rid of them. I can't be the only one that has heard of Kel-Tecs being problem children.


TKC, while I appreciate your opinion, I do disagree with it. There have been problems with some of the Kel-tecs, but the 2nd Gen of the P3AT's have been very good. I do not believe there is a handgun that can touch it for the role it was intended. I have had one for several months now, and I love mine. No problems whatsoever!! I always have it on me. I would not give it up for anything. Also, from what I hear, Kel-tec's CS is excellent should it ever be needed.

Ron

[colubrid]

A fluff and buff of any Kel Tek is reccomended. Other relibility mods can also be done at home.

http://www.ktrange.com/articles.html


http://www.ktog.org/vbulletin/

http://www.ktrange.org/phpbb2/index.php

[ousanas]

I want a p3AT so much right now, I just think it would be a lot nicer to EDC than my taurus PT-140. I almost want to trade my Pt140 in on one, but can't bring myself to do it.

wish I had money. wish I had a job right now to make money actually :(

[dan20703]

I have the P32 which has a much more reliable history than the 3AT. Living in TX in the summer regulates your choices of clothing to shorts and T-shirt or bathing suit and T-shirt. This light little gun makes very easy to always have it in your pocket. I bought it used for $175 and never had any issues with reliability.

[TKC]

TKC, while I appreciate your opinion, I do disagree with it. There have been problems with some of the Kel-tecs, but the 2nd Gen of the P3AT's have been very good. I do not believe there is a handgun that can touch it for the role it was intended. I have had one for several months now, and I love mine. No problems whatsoever!! I always have it on me. I would not give it up for anything. Also, from what I hear, Kel-tec's CS is excellent should it ever be needed.

Ron


Well, I am personally VERY happy to be wrong!! I am glad that your Kel-Tec is reliable.