I Need Help! What Gun To Buy???

[Gadget Guy]

OK, I hate to admit it, but I don't know anything about guns. If I were to buy just one handgun, what should I buy? My brother who is a virtual gun expert says a .357, but are there better choices out there? As you can probably tell, I need help! :crazy2:

[Gadget Guy]

Oops! I forgot to mention that this would be used for home protection and range shooting. Thanks! ;D

[P97DC]

This is my best Home protection gun, range gun, varmint and snake gun, and CCW. I also do my own reloading.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b357/P97/MyCCW.jpg

[Gadget Guy]

Very nice!

[Bravo 25]

By your own admission you don't know much about them, but want one for home protection. This would be best served by one that requires no safety manipulation. A revolver, or a Glock. It would therefore require that you have securely stored. (Just a friendly reminder). You don't want to have to wake up a 2:30 am, half asleep, and try to figure out the safety. This is a double edged sword though. (Where would we be without those).

Go to a range, rent gun, shoot gun, many guns, buy gun, practice, practice, practice. Then practice some more. I really could not even recommend that you purchase a gun for self, or home defense until you are very, very profecient with one. Stress is not a good time to find out you should have trained more.

I love my 1911-A1 for combat shooting, or IDPA, but I keep a Glock in the headboard at night.

If I take this one logical step further I would even suggest you get a shotgun with some #6, or #8 birdshot. In the beginning of using a firearm for defense this would be the best choice.

OH and as for better calibers yes there are. You don't want a misaligned round going through your house, your neighbors house, and out into the street somewhere.

[pipedreams]

If I could only have one for home protection and range shooting I'd go with .357. Most likely my S&W 686. Lots of different loads available in .357, plus the added bonus of .38 Sp for plinking. I love wheel guns.

todd

[Malcontent]

I would also go with the .357 Mag. Lots of different load commercially available for it, plus as a revolver, it is a better choice for someone with limited experience with handguns.
Since it is for home defense and range shooting, I would recommend a 6" barrel.

[Crocodilo]

For these same reasons, I went for a 2'' S&W .357, a single gun for every use. CCW was main objective, so I choose this size.. Idiot proof, elephant proof, but it may be too powerfull for a beginner to control. I now feel confortable with it, but I sticked to .38 ammo in the early days. It's a flexible gun, classy, stainless steel will keep it hevy but going for ages.

[Gadget Guy]

You guys are awesome! I do know that training would be part of the deal, but going to a range and trying different guns is just brillant! I appreciate all the help so far, let's keep it coming...

Thanks,

Gadget Guy

[JonSidneyB]

I have always been of the opinion that a quality medium frame revolvers is the best place to learn. .357 would be my choice since it is so versitle.

If you can afford it, what is nice is to get both a .22 and .357 to learn on. The ammo savings will pay for the .22.

Shoot 100 rounds of rimfire to learn trigger control, then 6 of the magnum to learn to shoot with recoil.
Repeat until you are down to 12 rounds of Centerfire then shoot up the rest of the rimfire. The 12 rounds is so you have enough ammo with you when you go buy more.

I think the two secrets of shooting reasonably well is trigger control and not flinching.

The revolver has one huge advantage over autoloaders to learn not to see if you arer flinching. Take two live cartridges and stick them randomly in the cylinder then place 4 spent casings in the cylinder. Spin the cylinder and close, don't flip it closed however. Now try shooting, if you have a flinch going you will know if then you hit a spent caseing. Do this until the gun does not move at all when it does not fire.

[TKC]

I would suggest that if you can, go to a range, where you can rent various guhs to see what YOU like. What may be the perfect gun for me, may be very wrong for you. That is my best suggestion.

[kamkazmoto]

I would also like to suggest that you go to a range and rent and try as many handguns as you can. Calibers from .380 to .357 and .45acp. Be aware that the all have different characteristics. I can't stand the sound of a .357 it has a high pitched bark that my ears just don't like, on the other hand I love the sound of a .45acp or .44 special. It has more of a bass boom. If you are strictly looking for a home defense weapon, I recommend that you get a 20 gauge shotgun and load it up with birdshot. At 10 feet the difference in results between a 12 and a 20 gauge shooting is insignificant but the 20 will be MUCH easier to handle.

[gearloose]

I agree. I work at a Gun store and range and if you poll most long time gun owners/shooters and asked them what gun they would grab in a time of emergency, if they could only take one it would be a 357 mag. revolver.4 or 6 inch.Lot's of ammo choices.
Plus there are tons of good used revolvers out there.A good used S&W model 13 4" can be had for approx. $250.Ruger GP100 and
Taurus models are also good choices.

[erh]

Gadget Guy - Everyone has their own particular "You should start with..." Mine happens to be a nice used .38 special w/ standard or even light loads; .357 is all fine and dandy, but you don't want to shoot a bad guy, AND your next door neighbor through the wall next door. Just my .02 cents...

Eric :)

[Fiddleback]

My wife bought me a Ruger GP141 .357 with a 4" barrel for graduation from college. Its a freaking sweetie. I've seen it in a couple of movies since she did it. Mine is SS. I love that gun. My wife can shoot it with the 38's in it too. It shoots smooth as a 22 with those 38 loads. MMMM.

[Jeff9266]

I'm in a similar situation as Gadget Guy - the information in this thread has been great. A couple of other questions - can all .357s use 38 ammo or do only certain brands have that capability? I've also read that less maintenance is required for revolvers as opposed to semiautomatics - how often do you have to clean a .357 if it's only used for range shooting once a month or so?

Thanks

Jeff

[pipedreams]

Jeff-
Any .357 can use .38 Sp. ammo. You should clean your firearms after each range session.

todd

[Lee1959]

A 4 inch .357 magnum is very hard to beat for a first handgun and is constantly rated with the right loads right up among the best stoppers. Ruger, S&W, any of the reliable names have many choices for you to pick from. Try going to a local range and seeing if people will let you shoot various models, or go to a gun store that will let you do so to compare before buying.

Stay away from lightweights such as scandium frames and short snub barrels until you learn proper recoil management and trigger control so you do not pick up bad habits and flinches which are extremely hard to break. Since it is a home gun, something with a nice heavy barrel which will soak up recoil would be perfect and making the tons of practice we know you will do to become profiecnt a joy would not be out of line, since it will be in storage most of the time and not constantly on your hip.

Personally I like smooth wood or ivory grips on my revolvers, and disdane rubber grips because I have yet to find one that feels comfortable, but a lot of people really like rubber so try and see what works for you.

[HarryN]

I am probably old fashion - my grand father kept a shot gun behind his bedroom door, and I still like those for self defense use. A light load goes a long way at short range, and my accuracy with a hand gun is mediocre compared to a longer barrel gun.

[konrad]

I have introduced many folks to shooting and find a .22 LR revolver the best and safest to train with for the first year or so. I fancy the S&W 317 or even the 351 in .22 magnum. Those are keepers and the LR is cheap to shoot. Next choice would be a .38/.357 revolver shooting 38 specials. I would stay away from automatics initially due to extra vigilance required to maintain safety. While very simple devices, semi autos can surprise a new, highly enthused shooter in the wrong way. Have fun.

[Sharpdogs]

What about a full size Glock or 1911 with a Ciener (sp?) conversion kit so you can shoot a 9mm/.45 and .22 cal. I think there is CZ pistol that comes in 9mm with a .22 conversion as an accessory.

[gearloose]

The CZ you speak of is the CZ75, one of the best (mm pistols going.Accurate tough dependable, and the most copied handgun design in the world.It would be a good choice for a first auto pistol, but I would still go with the 357 if you are only going to get one for now. Oh by the way, guns can be just like knives and lights and all the other gadgets we love....we rarely stop at one.

[Gadget Guy]

Gadget Guy - Everyone has their own particular "You should start with..."* Mine happens to be a nice used .38 special w/ standard or even light loads; .357 is all fine and dandy, but you don't want to shoot a bad guy, AND your next door neighbor through the wall next door.* Just my .02 cents...

Eric* :)


A very good point, thanks!

GG

[Lee1959]

The .357 can shoot .38 and .357, that is why you buy a .357 instead of a strictly .38 special, for that ability in the future should you choose to carry it hunting or something of the like.

As far as over penetration in a home situation, one should never shoot solid bullets, in my opinion, in a traditional home. Especially if there are others in the home or neighbors. Even the .38 special if it hits no studs will penetrate thru multiple layers of sheet rock, and insulting materials.

The rounds to use, again in my opinion, in a home are Glassers (either blue or grey nosed meaning different sized shot suspended in the geletin mix ) and Magsafes, or other frangible bullet types. They rounds penetrate walls as little as possible, yet are extremely effective man, or animal stoppers. In most cases they are much more effective than traditional hardball ammunition.

My .45 ACP is stoked with Glasser Greys , and my wifes .357 magnum on her side of the bed is stoked with Glasser Blues. The deciding factor was simply what the local store had in for each caliber, both blues and greys are acceptable to me.

[Jvalera]

My name should be Powderburned. I ll cut the lecture. after all the firearms Ive had
and If I had to carry one again it would be the Glock 35 Period. :police:

[copykat]

If I could only have one for home protection and range shooting I'd go with .357. Most likely my S&W 686. Lots of different loads available in .357, plus the added bonus of .38 Sp for plinking. I love wheel guns.

todd

I'll second that! I had a Ruger GP-100 4" stainless .357 magnum and thought nothing could be finer in the world. So i went to the range with a buddy and let him try it, and He let me try his S&W 686. We were both sold! Both beautiful guns, shoot like a dreams, many ammo choices, pink with reletivly cheap .38s all day, .357 knock down power. don't have to worry if the safetys off or if you put one in the chamber, or if it rusted shut since the last time you used it 6 years ago. pull it out, pull the trigger, it'll go bang.

[Jim101]

My .02..........

Home protection, a shotgun, usually just "racking" the gun will make the intruder leave.. A shotgun won't go through the walls, and maybe hit other people living in the house... For some reason I can't see myself getting up at 3:00am grabbing my .357, taking a shot, missinig and then half awake trying to recover from the recoil to take a second shot...
Just my opinion.......I have a KT .32 on my night stand because I am comfortable with it and there is no one in the house but my wife and I....

Jim

[TKC]

Gadget Guy: have you decided yet what gun you want? Have you had the opportunity to shoot any yet at a range?

[pipedreams]

I was wondering the same thing.

todd

[Mahachippy]

Hopefully he went with an M1 Garand...you know in the right body holster they really aren't that cumbersome! :lolhammer:

[erh]

I sort of go for the "One-of-each" philosophy... :D

[Roadkill Bill]

For those new to the game, a revolver is the best choice. No magazine problems, no jams, and if it ever goes "click" instead of "bang," all you have to do is pull the trigger again. You can reload fast if you ever have to with a speedloader, and there is no safety to deal with. It is so simple and the slimmer grip (because there is no magazine inside) is easy for almost everone to handle. I have Hogue Soft Rubber Monogrips on all of my double action revolvers.

I agree that the .357 is the best caliber to get if you don't reload. You can shoot the cheap .38 Specials for fun, and keep it loaded with .38+P or .357 ammo for protection. So you have three levels of power in one gun. Fun to shoot!

If you do get into reloading, well . . .* never mind, we'll save that for another thread.

I keep a 3" S&W 66 with night sights by my bed. 12 ga. coachgun right under the bed, too. Then my wife has her .357 . . .

[dkochan]

I recommend a Glock 19 because it is affordable, accurate, durable, easy to shoot, versatile, cheap to shoot and concealable. It is one of my favorite handguns.

[Jim101]

I'm not trying to be a "wise a**" but a Glock 19, "affordabel".....come on.....How much did yo pay for one?,,
I have nothing against Glock's, but they are not cheap.....

Jim

[bugs]

I have always recommended for MANY years a .357mag, 4'', SS revolver. One can learn to shoot properly with light .38 Special loads and once mastered can load .357 for defense. Being SS, maintenence is not as much an issue. Very versatile pistol for targets, plinking, home defense, and smallish game hunting. I'd go with a Ruger, Taurus or S&W; the Rugers are built like a tank!

[Gadget Guy]

Gadget Guy: have you decided yet what gun you want? Have you had the opportunity to shoot any yet at a range?


Nothing like a super slow reply. I haven't had a chance to go to the range, but I think I will wne my Brother comes to visit. He is a competition shooter and has several different guns to try. I will let everyone know when I do. Thanks again for the help...

GG

[Southern Sunset]

Gadget Guy: You have received some very knowledgeable and good information. Remember that no matter what you decide to buy, and I'll throw in another quarter into the pot for a .357mag, use the range time as much as possible. The more you shoot, the more proficient you become.

[Deaths Head]

If I could only have one for home protection and range shooting I'd go with .357. Most likely my S&W 686. Lots of different loads available in .357, plus the added bonus of .38 Sp for plinking. I love wheel guns.
todd

Luckily I read threw the whole thread. I agree with Todd here. Nothing like one of the higher capacity revolvers. I almost bought this one.

[jggonzalez]

If I had to chose one gun to keep, it would be one of my Kahrs. For a beginner, I think the idea of a .357 from either Ruger, S&W, or Taurus is hard to beat. Don't turn your nose up at a good .357 single-action if you see one at a good price. They're easy to shoot and are just fine for home defense. Just make sure you practice with whatever you get. Good luck!

[hatchetjack]

My S&W 586 would be my heater of choice if I was to have to pick just one.

[Deaths Head]

I really want this all titanium revolver here.
All Ti Revolver (http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details.cfm?model=627SH4C&category=Revolver)

[Chuck G.]

I would go with the Glock 19. Best power to weight ratio out there. Buy a bunch of ammo and take a class from a reputable instructor. As for accessories I would buy a straight drop strong side holster, Comp-tac and Bladetech come to mind. Also get yourself a good 60 Lumin min. flashlight with a tail cap button. Just my .02 cents.

[JonSidneyB]

I have a Glock 19, one before the light rail. Actually I think it is 3rd or 4th year production.

Handguns seem to be a very personal thing on tastes and how well you use them,

My Glock 19 lived under the bed. In all honest it is a very good gun, it just does not fit me well. I can't find anything to criticize it on its reliability. Even though it is a streamlined gun I am actually slower with it than some other guns and I cannot get the same groups I can with some other guns.

The Glock 19 is a good gun, it just does not fit me. I still would not feel underarmed with one.

[P97DC]

Nothing like a super slow reply. I haven't had a chance to go to the range, but I think I will wne my Brother comes to visit. He is a competition shooter and has several different guns to try. I will let everyone know when I do. Thanks again for the help...

GG

I think you are making a wise decision to shoot several different caliber guns before deciding. Something else that I have found enjoyable along with shooting is reloading. If you like to shoot a caliber that is expensive, this might be a consideration.

[jeffm]

Lots of good advice here.

There are so many good choices out there, both auto and revolver. I think choosing anything from a well known manufacturer will provide you with an acceptable solution.

I know that it's been said before, but I'll say it again: Train, train, train!!!

I personaly am the most comfortable with a midsized Glock, such as the 19 or 23, just because I've shot one so much that it feels like an extention of my hand while I'm holding it. Everything else is just a little akward in my hands, even if one grip or another matched the ergonomics of my hand perfectly.

The old adage that Practice makes perfect is true, but I'll go even one further that only perfect practice makes perfect. I'm saying that any new gun owner should seek out professional instruction first thing. New shooters make the best students because they haven't had the time to teach themselves bad habits yet. I had been shooting for years, but taking some training made a world of difference. I had to learn that I didn't know anything before I was able to be taught something.

Just my $0.02

[PX]

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a73/Laserlips/100_4832.jpg


One for yourself and one for your honey..* * :D

And:

For concealed carry:
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a73/Laserlips/100_5265.jpg

Then again, maybe not?

Best Wishes,

J. Pomeroy

[Gadget Guy]

I finally got out and did some shooting! I shot a .357, 9mm, .38, NAA keychain gun, 12 gauge shotgun. I am going to buy a S&W .357 revolver, anyone have any thoughts on this purchase? Stainless or blued? Barrel length? I still have much to learn as you can tell, but getting out there is part of the learning process! ;D


GG

[oregonshooter]

Stainless in 3inch

[traveler]

Great decision to go with a .357,GG. Because this is a home defense / range gun, me two cents is a minimum 4" barrel.
And if the price is right, get it in stainless steel for the maintenance factor.Smith & Wesson makes a couple of models with increased cylinder capacity(7 shots, as well as one they used to make in 8 shots)That one extra bullet is a nice bit of insurance
S&W is a great brand,but you might want to consider Ruger as well; Rugers were, when I went gun shopping, just a little bit better than the competition I was examining at the gun store, in terms of fit, finnish, lockup and such IMHO.

[Gadget Guy]

Thanks for the info Traveler! My Brother did mention the 7 shot option and I think that might be the Best choice for me. I did buy the 2007 gun buyers annual and I plan to do a lot of reading. I really like S&W, but I might consider other options. I know everyone has their own preference when it comes to barrel length, but my Brother said I should go with a 6", what do you guys think?


GG

[3fgburner]

I really like S&W, but I might consider other options. I know everyone has their own preference when it comes to barrel length, but my Brother said I should go with a 6", what do you guys think?

Hi--
I'm a new poster here, but I've been a shooter for 42 of the 50 years I've been around. Since you live in the PRK, concealed-carry is probably not an issue (unless you live in one of the enlightened counties). That being the case, you don't gain anything with a shorter barrel. I second your brother's opinion on the 6" barrel. It gives you a longer sight radius for both target and defensive use. Since you're pretty much only going to have it at home and at the range, go with the best potential for accuracy.

[jeffm]

I think six inches is a bit cumbersome to wield if using the gun for self defense (although it would make for a good club when it runs dry). Four inch barrels are a good compromise for an all-around type gun.

Are you looking at professional training in your area? For a beginner especially, I think it is very important. It will help develop good habits, before you have time to learn bad ones.

[traveler]

I second jeffm's 4" compromise barrel length for overall abilities.
But, if I recall corectly, the 6" barrel is optimal for efficient in maximising the burning powder of a .357 round.
This is'nt so important in a home/self-defense situation, but it is good for target shooting and especially if you ever decide to go hunting.

[Random Avenger]

While a revolver is great for an inexperience shooter, just remember that the trigger pull (in DA mode) blows!

Regardless of whatever firearm you choose, make sure that you are prepared to study shooting and the art of the firearm. Purchase a firearms that you will shoot with and practice with often, if you do not you are only harming yourself and possibly your loved ones.

I would recommend that you take a CHP class, even if you do not anticipate obtaining a CHP. The information and insight that you will gain into shooting as a sport, shooting as a lifestyle and the laws of your state.

Train, train, train, and train some more. Then, when you think you are good to go, train some more.

And most of all......... have a good time! And welcome to the world of guns. It's fun, dangerous and invigorating. It is a great responsibility that should not be entered into lightly.

[TKC]

Gadget Guy: Have you reached a decision as to what firearm you might purchase? If not, do you have a top 3?

[Highvalleyranch]

Simple answer, Glock, and probably the glock 19 for simplicity and reliability.

Interesting that glocks comprised over 50 percent of our CCW class, with various semi autos comprising another 25 percent.
The other 25 percent of participants, I saw running out to get glocks after the class! I talked to at least six people out of the 30 that were going to get glocks.

[loveit]

GG: You've been given plenty of good advice. My first gun was a S & W 6 shot .38 with a 4 inch barrel. It was blued with a target trigger. It was an excellent first gun. I learned a lot shooting it. The barrel length of 4 inches seems about perfect for a .38. I'd imagine you'd usually shoot .38 over the 357 Mag. The stainless versions are always nice, too, but the 6 inch barrel seems a little long. I have weak wrists, though, so maybe that's why i shy away from them. I sold that gun and now shoot a 9mm Sig Sauer for home protection. I love it. I would like one of those .22 S&W 10 shot revolvers... It's hard to stop at one!

Best of luck in finding a gun you're comfortable with. :)

[Gadget Guy]

It took me 16 years before my wife was comfortable with having a loaded gun in the house. Now that she is somewhat OK with it, I have decided what gun I want. I'm going with a S&W .357 revolver a model 686 I believe? I took my wife shooting and she did just awesome! I want to buy her a .22 to go target shooting with. My brother reloaded some .38's with a very light load for her to use in our current gun. Next time we go out she is going to do a lot of shooting, as I don't want her to be afraid of the gun! :)

[copykat]

S&W .357 revolver a model 686
sounds like a wise choice to me
Ive shot one and absolutly loved it - Very impressed!
and a wife that shoots is great. .22's are great
loading down some .38's is a good idea too
Only way to top that is if your both NRA members.

[perado]

S&W .357 revolver a model 686
sounds like a wise choice to me
Ive shot one and absolutely loved it - Very impressed!
and a wife that shoots is great. .22's are great
loading down some .38's is a good idea too
Only way to top that is if your both NRA members.

Dang, I got in too late to put in even a penny's worth, but you got good, solid info, and seem to have made a good decision. And AMEN about the NRA (and GOA, CCRKBA, JPFO, and any others you can find.)

[Lee1959]

The S&W 686 will definitly do everything you need a handgun to do that is for sure. It is a nice revolver with a heavy barrel, what length did you purchase? It sound as if you made a good informed choice and that it is working for you, well done. My brother in law has had one for many years and it has served him well.

A good .22 revolver is a fine thing to help hone shooting skills, and is in fact fun to use for plinking and small game hunting also :). I enjoy mine tremendously.

One minor thing to be aware of, the use handloads for self-defense or home defense rounds can become problematic after a shooting incedent. More than once this has been an issue brought up in either prosecution or after event lawsuits, factory rounds tend to be more accepted historically from reports in NRA publications I have seen in the past. Not to say it occurs every time, but it has, and may be best to be avoided.

[TKC]

Gagdet Guy: I am glad that you are happy with your choice!! That is excellent! That is very nice that your wife went shooting. That is excellent!!

[Gadget Guy]

Thanks TKC! She really did have a hard time getting used to the idea, but I think she knows that in a modern society we all need to be able to defend ourselves. I think now that she has done some sooting herself, she realizes that it can be fun too! :)

[jggonzalez]

My .02..........

Home protection, a shotgun, usually just "racking" the gun will make the intruder leave.. A shotgun won't go through the walls, and maybe hit other people living in the house... For some reason I can't see myself getting up at 3:00am grabbing my .357, taking a shot, missinig and then half awake trying to recover from the recoil to take a second shot...
Just my opinion.......I have a KT .32 on my night stand because I am comfortable with it and there is no one in the house but my wife and I....

Jim


I'm really curious about those Kel-Tecs. They look cheap, but most people seem to like them. I might have to break down and buy one. A gun doesn't have to be fancy to be fun! My personal favorite is pair of Kahrs - a K9 and an MK9. I prefer a Kahr over a Glock because of the metal frame and the slimmer grip. Like the Glock, they are very reliable, accurate, and don't have safeties to mess with.

[JonSidneyB]

While a revolver is great for an inexperience shooter, just remember that the trigger pull (in DA mode) blows!

I want to make a few points that so that people to not get the wrong idea about revolvers. Automatics and Revolvers both have their strong points. There are also some points made about both guns that are absolutely untrue and misleading. Some comments have merit but are also debatable.

I started using handguns at a very young age in the late 60s so I have a lifetime of experience packing them around. I have learned alot by reading but I have learned even more by making tons and tons of mistakes on things that I thought were obvious but I was wrong.

First I want to address the DA mode of a revolver. Out of the box I have seen both excellent double action triggers and some that were not as good but generally the bad ones were still very usable but could be improved. Most revolvers can have to action tuned up very nicely. A good double action revolver points very naturally and get get the first shot on the target very very fast. I do carry an automatic but if you ask me what gun to have in my hand to get the first shot on the target at close range fast I will take the revolver.

Now very few of you are going to become as good as Jerry with a revolver but if revolvers were that bad Jerry would not be able to do what he does with them.

Take a look at this film to see what a revolver is capable of.

http://www.successuniversity.com/les/video/fastshooter.wmv

Yes revolvers are good for beginners but some of the most experienced use them and use them very well.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Advantages of the Auto-loading pistol over the Revolver and advantages of the Revolver over the Auto-Loading pistol.

Speaking is sound bites as we do in forums has some weaknesses, it is difficult to account for exception and to provide proofs and evidence is a single post. I will not be able to do that in this post either. Some subjects do require alot of information to process properly.

I will take this thread is about carrying a gun for self defence. The arguments change if this is a field gun for walking in the woods and other types of uses and environments.

Stopping Power-(push)
Raw power does not tell the whole story. There is momentum, foot pounds of pressure, design of the bullet it self. The .357 magnum is a proven cartridge and the right ones do the job well and many will tell you that it is king for defence. The .38 plus P is not as bad as some say it is and not as good as others will tell you. Auto's have come along way in cartridge performance. The 10mm auto has a lot of potential but it is possible that there are not as many good bullet designs for it velocity. There is alos a lot of arguments that can be made about this issue and most have good points and are lacking at the same time. Power is important as you need enough to get the job done but it is also not the last word on an outcome as well. For the purposes of defence revolvers and automatics both overlap in performance so much that there not really any advantage either way.

Recoil-(advantage Automatic)
For a given level of power, the automatic has less recoil. If we make this comparison using service class handguns. We can take lets say a hot loaded 9x19 with 124 grain bullet and load a revolver with a cartridge of exactly the same exteriour performance with the same bullet. The automatic is going to have less felt recoil cerebus paribus. In truth the actual recoil energy is not as big as it feels. The automatic has the recoils spread of a longer time frame than the revolver. This is find of like getting hit with 1 pound of pressure 20 times over some very short period of time rather than 20 pounds all at once (I know, bad example) This assumption is made assuming that the automatic is some form of locked breach design. Most automatics use some version of the Browning method but there are others such as a rotating bolt and others. The blow back automatic is something else, it uses the mass of the slide and spring tention to delay extraction of the cartridge before pressure drops. Blow back guns felt recoil is almost the same as a revolver.

Capcity (advantage Automatic)
Not so much to talk about here, there are exceptions that we can look at but this is clearly one of the autoloaders advantages. This advantage is real but is not as big as some think that it is. I tried to find the FBI statistics on the average of legitimate self defence situations and the bell curve that goes with it. If I remember right, It was 3.4 rounds fired by both sides but I need to find the data to be sure. I know it was a left sloped bell curve and in the vast majority large capacity was not a factor. Capacity is still important as you could be in a situation that is called a statistical outlier. Remember, self defence is not the same as military or police action. Self defence you are not looking for trouble. In a military situation the handgun might still be self defence but the general circumstances are generally different. Yes, I know. There is some overlap but it is still different in aggragate.

Reloading while in use (advantage Automatic)
In truth reloading an automatic takes a bit longer but not in the field. We preload a part of it before it is needed (the magazine) Now there are some people that can load a revolver faster than most people can load a preloaded magazine into a gun but the fact is reloading a revolver requires much more exterity and more moves than an automatic. in the field. See capacity to see views on how important this is. Reload speed is a factor if needed but it is often not needed is self defence. Your situation could be one of the exception however.

Pointability-(advantage revolver)
If we compare have fast the first shot can be put on a target if the gun is in your hand but at your side. Most people seem to be able to get the first shot onto the acceptable areas of a target faster. There is a reason for this. Automatics do come in a variety of grip angles but they can only do so much with the shape, the revolver has much more flexibility in grip shape than an automatic. Alot of work has gone into grip shape on revolvers to enhance its usability. Revolvers can simply point super well with grips that work for you. In a self defence situation where the first shot lands can very important and can offset capacity and reload speed a bit. A simple truth is that as the time frame of a self defense action grows the numbers of rounds fired increases. This is one of the reason that many revolver shooters will not give up the revolver.

Reliability under normal shooting ciircumstances not related to ammo reliability such as bad primer-(advantage Revolver by the most thin of margins)
Some of the revolver and auto fans can cry foul on this. There are automatics that have fed everything I have stuck in them but than again ammo for auto loaders are at least somewhat designed to feed in autos. I have also had automatics that have had horrible reliability. Reliablity issues can be addressed and most of them fixed to acceptable levels on good gun designs, some the problem is inherant in the design. I would say you throw out bad autimatics from this statistic, if the Automatic you have will not feed reliably do not carry it. This is limiting the field to good automatics. Is this fair? I think so because if you choose what you carry responcibly you can eliminate alot of problems. There are very very reliable Automatics nowdays if you pick well and then test the gun, if there is a problem you can get it fixed if it is a quality design. Revolvers on average have fewer problems but revolvers have more severe problems. When a revolver fails it's failure is one that you cannot fix quickly in the field. Like I said, if you choose well, this will not be a problem in either design.

Reliablity with bad ammo (advantage revolver)
Bad ammo does happen, it can be a dead primer, a hard primer, or the powder could have been contaminated. Yes this does happen, if it happens often enough to consider is up to you. If you have a bad cartridge in a revolver you just pull the trigger again and it advances another cartridge. In an automatic it is different, if you have a double action automatic you can pull the trigger again. If it was a hard primer it might go off on the second strike and I have seen this many times. If it is dead primer you just wasted valuble time pulling the trigger again. The other thing to do is to rack the slide again and introduce another cartridge to the chamber. I have shot a ton of ammo over the decades, bad ammo does happen but does it happen often enough to decide between revolver and auto. I do not know but it is something to consider.

Reliablity under special circumstances (big advantage Revolver)
Self defence shooting tends to take place at close range but there are the rare exceptions. If you are being attacked by someone using a weapon that does not have reach a struggle can and often does happen and your gun and gun hand can be one of the targets of this struggle. On the automatic that is reliable under normal circumstances alot can go wrong here. Automatic rely on timing, I have done caliber conversions what was not a factory set up. One of the big issues when doing this getting the timing correct. If the slide is in contact with something like the side of it against an arm or leg in order to get the shot off the lowered slide velocity is likely to have just turned your automatic into a single shot. If you have to shoot from an awkward wrist angle in order to turn the gun into your opponent what is called limp wristing can happen, an automatic that was otherwise reliable has a chance of misfeeding on you. If the slide contacts something to the rear of it during it's cycle it will shortstroke. In a struggle this is more than a possibility. You might have to fire the gun inverted, many good automatics do not like this. If I were to be caught in a physical struggle and I have a handgun, I want it to be a 2-3 inch double action revolver period.

Draw from belt and IWB holster (small advantage Revolver)
Both the holster and the gun is a factor here and it also depends on where you are carrying the gun. out of belt holster there is not much difference but the shape of the revolver grip gives it a slightest advantage in getting a grip on it but it is not much, the holster design is more important here. In IWB the revolver is even a tiny bit easier as the grip of the gun is pulled into the body and the revolver grip is slightly on average to slip your fingers under it. Again holster design is a bigger factor and this advantage is slight. In truth I do not think this is a big factor.

Drawing from a front pocket (Big advantage Revolver)
I have to make a conditional statement, the revolver you carry in a front pocket needs an internal or bobbed hammer. If not the hammer spur will catch on the clothing. This is something you have to try to understand. Put an automatic in your front pocket and try and start with your hand out of your pocket and then go get the gun out of your pocket. Do the same thing with something like a Centienial. There is not contest here. Try it and you will quiclky see the difference, it is huge.

Rear Pocket Draw(small flat Automatics rule this one)

Not much to say here, there are not many revolvers suited to back pocket carry except for a few very small single action revolvers and the single action revolvers have a hammer spur and need them.

Concelment and carryability (advantage----well you better read on on this one. Automatics are generally more concealable because they are flatter, revolvers are more concealable because they are rounder) This one really depends on how you carry this and has so many twists and turns. Conventional wisdom does not always hold here here those that have tried to carry a wide variety of arms concealed will recognize these. How many of you have a box full of holsters that you do not use? I used to have a bunch that I abandoned.

Before diving in and addressing some myths on concealment I want to state some facts. First on gun weight the closer and tighter to the body the gun is the less of a factor weight is. The further from the center of the body the more important of a factor weight is. Also as you move further above and below the waist line the more of a factor weight is. Try a Stainless Steel 640 using a Bahrami Hip Grip and then try this on an alloy 442. Yep there is a difference but not really that much, the reason is the Bahrami grip pulls the gun in tight to the body(tighter than a holster can). Now put them in your pocket, the weight is a little more important here. Next try with in a jacket pocket, the difference is massive. The difference in felt weight is huge in a jacket pocket.

Ok this gets complicated here.

Sometimes a longer gun is easier to carry and conceal than a shorter gun, this has to do with weight distribution and transitions. Sometimes a shorter gun is easier to conceal. There are some situations that the gun being as flat as possible is the right answer, there are times that making the gun fatter can actually hide the gun better. Concealment is sometimes more about transitions in size then it is it making size minimal, sometimes it isn't. Some factors are mode of dress and exactly where and how the gun is being carried. Sometimes it is the smallest of things that can affect carry. I think the best way to approach this is by examples and you will see why alot of experimentation might be in order.

Concealing with IWB and Belt holsters:
This requires some kind of covering garment and that gament makes a big difference on what gun hides better. I used to frequently carry under a business suit in the late 80s and early 90s and found quite a few things. Some fabrics and colors can make the bulge of the gun obvoius and you can tell that that is a gun. Going to a flatter gun helped alot. The next day I put on a different suit and got my flat gun out but guess what? My flat gun stuck out like a sore thumb and here is why, there was not much bulge but instead there were flat spots and points. When people saw the suit they would see the area of flat space and a little point at the heal of the grip, again it was obvoius what was being carried. I swithed back to the thicker gun but under this suit the bulge was not noticed but now there was no sea of flat space and no point. The transition was more gradual and this suit would hide the thicker gun better than the thinner gun. On some suits I found that a point on the heal of the grip made no difference but on others you had to have a round heal or it would just not work. While carrying under suits I quickly found that the grip often had more to do with barrel lenght. I also found that if the gun was too short most of the weight is at the rear of the gun and it wants to pull away from the body, it is ofen easier to keep a gun right to the body if it does have some barrel or slide length to balance it better and to provide some leverage to hold it against the body.

When I carried under untucked shirts and non-suite jackets, I found similar things. Under a winter coat I could carry anything. On jackets and shirts alot of strange things happened. There were some T-Shirts that were not overly loose I could hide full sized guns under but once I put the jacked on over it the gun suddenly became obvious. I think color and shean of the fabric plays a huge role in this. In some clothes the thicker revolver does hide better or a rounded autoloader grip. In others going as flat as possible made the diffreence. This is odd but as you carry more and more you will see these things happen.

Concealing in a pocket:
Carrying guns in pockets is new to me, I started doing it in the very late 80s so I am not as experienced at it but I see that I have been doing it longer than many people have.

I used to only have mid sized and larger guns. In my youth it was 6 and 4 inch revolvers from Colt, Rugar, and Smith and Wesson and 1911's as the autoloader. In the 80s my gun types that I went through exploded and continued into the 90s. When I was no longer wearing a suit or jacket much of the time I started wanting something smaller so I got a mouse gun and I ended up getting a ton of them, most of them are gone now.

When i got my first tiny automatic and dropped it into the front pocket of a pair of pants I was horrified. I looked down and saw the little gun from outside of the pants and there was absolutely no doubt as to what it was. Everyone could tell I was carrying a small pistol in my pocket so I put on some jeans. It again screamed gun, I tried on some larger jeans and it did not scream gun but instead in a normal tone of voice that there was a gun in that pocket. I realized that I needed a pocket holster even though that made the gun thicker. Some magic happened, the little pistol was more concealable now but it still stood out, you could still tell that it could be something and that it could be a gun. I was learning again what I learned in by carrying on the belt, shapes not thickeness is sometimes the answer.

I tried many different guns and pocket holsters for years and never was satisfied with the results. One day a friend of mine told me try a J-frame revolver. I thought he was nuts, I explained that the J-frame was huge compared to what I have been trying to carry in my front pocket. Well I tired his and was stunned, the larger thicker gun vanished into the pocket. I had to look in the mirror over and over again. The larger thicker gun in its pocket holster completly vanished, I tried the revolver with out the holster and the gun became visable. I stuck the holster back in the pocket with the revolver and it was gone. This was a huge lesson for me, there are times that much larger and thicker hides better then small and thin. It is about transitions. The revolver in its holster is round like your leg spread over a larger area, not a little flat lump in your pocket that screams look at me. The other think I found was that I had struggled to draw small automatics from the pocket but the J-frame would come right out. Now in a jacket pocket pocket the J-frame Centenial rules, it can be fired through the pocket, try that with most other guns.


A think of note on guns is fit to the shooter. One reason I think handguns are a very personal thing is that we are all different. What shoots best for one person does not fit another, often this is due grip angle, hand size and finger lenght. Your milage will vary when carrying guns that others recomend.

I do not think there is such thing as a best gun. I think you have to consider alot of factors and look for the best fit for the circumstances that are the most likely to happen and your lifestyle. All handguns are compormises of features. A gun can shine in one area and fail horribly in another area. There is not best unless you can absolutely define the entire circumstance in advance of the situation and conditions a gun will be used.

Don't bash the other guys gun if it works. Yours might be better than it in some ways but the other guys gun is probably better than yours in another.

[Gadget Guy]

I finally did it!* :D* I bought a S&W 686 (7 shot) with a 6" barrel for $599 on sale. What do you guys think of the price?

[7k7k99]

seems high to me, but then I haven't purchased any guns since the early 80's

what caliber is the 686?

[Gadget Guy]

Opps, it's a .357 with a list price of about $750. I couldn't find a better price here in CA.

[Deaths Head]

You gotta make sure that he handgun or pistol is approved in CA too.

[Gadget Guy]

I got the one with the new locking mechanism, yuck! >:(

[Deaths Head]

There's a new locking mech? I hate it when they do stuff like that. How does it work?

[Gadget Guy]

It actually has a key that has to lock the function of the gun, you then still have to have it locked in a case. Yippie for California law!!! :(

[Deaths Head]

Awww! That's sucks. Taurus has the same thing. But you can keep it unlocked right?

[Gadget Guy]

Only in the same places that you can leave it loaded.

[7k7k99]

next california will put locks on the bullets :(

then again, I'm surprised they still allow you to purchase bullets

[Deaths Head]

next california will put locks on the bullets* :(

then again, I'm surprised they still allow you to purchase bullets

:lolhammer:
They kinda do here. If you get pulled over with a bullet in your car (no gun), that is a crime in CA.

[Gadget Guy]

I couldn't agree more. I am all for gun safety, but this is getting out of hand. Why would they force us to double lock a gun? If the gun is going to be stored near children, then yes I see it, but for adults that is just stupid! California will probably be the first place to try and ban knives too. Oh well... I can only live within the laws of my state. This is just my opinion of course. *:)

[shrap]

It actually has a key that has to lock the function of the gun, you then still have to have it locked in a case. Yippie for California law!!!


They kinda do here.* If you get pulled over with a bullet in your car (no gun), that is a crime in CA.

I don't think either of these are California laws.

The 'locked in case' law is only for automobile transportation, and that's only if it's not in the trunk (ie: trunk counts as a locked case). It does not apply at all to your own home.

Please don't spread any more misinformation.

[Deaths Head]

I was a little vague with my post. Every part of tbe gun has to be in a locked container. That's correct.
Sorry, I didn't mean to be spreading any false info. You did good pointing that out.

[Gadget Guy]

I don't think either of these are California laws.

The 'locked in case' law is only for automobile transportation, and that's only if it's not in the trunk (ie: trunk counts as a locked case). It does not apply at all to your own home.

Please don't spread any more misinformation.


Are you a lawyer representing California gun law? I was told that the gun function must be locked and locked in a case to transport in California. I paid $10 for my gun safety speech and I was given wrong information? While we sometimes make mistakes here, I don't think it is anyone's intention to misrepresent any gun law.

[glockstersharp]

GG - I'm sure he was just frustrated about all the different interpretations of the law. Nevertheless, current CA law only requires it to be locked in the case and not necessarily the gun lock itself. By the way, you have a sweet gun. I had one about 15 years ago and loved it. O0

"12026.1. (a) Section 12025 shall not be construed to prohibit any
citizen of the United States over the age of 18 years who resides or
is temporarily within this state, and who is not within the excepted
classes prescribed by Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this code or
Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, from
transporting or carrying any pistol, revolver, or other firearm
capable of being concealed upon the person, provided that the
following applies to the firearm:
(1) The firearm is within a motor vehicle and it is locked in the
vehicle's trunk or in a locked container in the vehicle other than
the utility or glove compartment."

[Deaths Head]

And from what I have read from a book on CA gun laws, the trunk is only considered a locked container under CA law as long as you do not have access to the trunk from the cabin of the vehicle, e.g. hatchback vehicle. Furthermore, parts of the gun such as the magazine and ammunition has to be secured in this manner as well.

[Gadget Guy]

glockstersharp, Does that law pertain to the new locking mechanism that will be standard on all guns in California starting in 2007? If so, I was given some wrong information. Thanks for posting that for us, but I never claimed to be a expert on California gun law. *:)

:topic:

It really is a nice gun and I think I made the right choice for me. Anyone have a comment on the price of $599 in California? I went to another store and the 2-1/2" barrel version was $683. They didn't have the 6" barrel at all.

[glockstersharp]

I'm not familiar with that law (not an expert either) but I do know that they were pushing to require that any newly manufactured, imported etc. handguns be required to have that safety lock. However, I haven't heard anything that will require the handgun safety lock to be engaged for lawful transport. Disclaimer: This is only to the best of my knowledge.

I don't know what current prices are on the 686 but I would think that $599 is a great price nowadays! Congratulations and I believe you received excellent advice on handgun choice given the set parameters. That 686 brought me into the "Masters" class at my first shooting competition 15 years ago.

[Gadget Guy]

Thanks glockstersharp!* :highfive:* I am excited to get my new gun.* :D* I have so much to learn being a novice, but I haven't talked to very many people who had anything bad to say about the S&W 686. My Brother has one that is tricked out for competition shooting and he loves it.

I forgot to mention that I got a free S&W hat with my purchase! Now try and beat that deal! :laugh:

[Deaths Head]

By the way, the info I posted is only how I interpreted the law. *I found it to be the safest way to transport my firearm to make sure I don't get into any trouble if I ever got pulled over and searched for whatever reason.

I agree, the 686 is a great gun. When I bought my gun, I had to decide between a 1911-A1 or the 686. *I didn't know much at all about guns at the time and my friends pushed me to get the semi-auto. *I love the 1911, but I really liked the 686 and now know that if I went with that gun, it too would have been a great choice as well.
I still want to get a revolver.

[glockstersharp]

By the way, the info I posted is only how I interpreted the law. *I found it to be the safest way to transport my firearm to make sure I don't get into any trouble if I ever got pulled over and searched for whatever reason.

I agree, the 686 is a great gun.* When I bought my gun, I had to decide between a 1911-A1 or the 686. *I didn't know much at all about guns at the time and my friends pushed me to get the semi-auto. *I love the 1911, but I really liked the 686 and now know that if I went with that gun, it too would have been a great choice as well.*
I still want to get a revolver.*


You're absolutely correct, DH. The ammo must be stored seperately when transporting.
You gotta love the 1911. That has become my favorite -especially Kimbers! :clap:

[Deaths Head]

I haven't been to the range in almost a year, and I forgot all about that. Yeah, the ammo has to be stored in a separate container. Thanks for reminding me! Whew!
If I remember right, I've seen the 686 being sold for about $800+, so GG got an awesome deal.
If I hang around this thread any longer, I might catch a bug. I already have the knife bug, the watch bug and just got over the Atwood bug. I need another gun like a hole in my head.

[Gadget Guy]

I know I'm going to get some grief on this one, but I bought the 686 so I would only need one gun. My Brother says just wait, but I don't see the need for more than one gun unless you have a specific need for it. I'm with DH, I don't need nor can I afford another hobby! ;D

[glockstersharp]

Yeah, Gadget Guy, but I'm sure one day you thought that you only needed one flashlight. one knife, one Atwood tool etc. :help:

I started with the gun bug, a minor flashlight bug compared to most others, followed by the watch bug, then the knife bug, along came the Atwood bug and now it's the Ti bug and now I'm :broke: (well, I do have a little put away for good deals on the B/S/T threads). No wonder I'm divorced! :doh:

[TKC]

Good for you for buying the gun that you liked!! I AM a fan of wheel guns myself. Good for you!!

[Gadget Guy]

Thank you! :)

[Highvalleyranch]

:lolhammer:
They kinda do here.* If you get pulled over with a bullet in your car (no gun), that is a crime in CA.


Can you state a specific law on that statement? I've never heard of that one! :pirate:

[Deaths Head]

Can you state a specific law on that statement? I've never heard of that one! :pirate:

Read my latter posts. I realized that that one was very vague.

[Highvalleyranch]

No problem. Just need to know if I better go clean out my car and truck! :lolhammer:

By the way, I live the the PRK, but in a rural county, and have a CCW, so not all of california has gone to the Demo dogs yet!
HVR

[Deaths Head]

No problem. Just need to know if I better go clean out my car and truck! :lolhammer:

By the way, I live the the PRK, but in a rural county, and have a CCW, so not all of california has gone to the Demo dogs yet!
HVR

I could be wrong, but it was just to my understanding that ammo and firearm has to be locked-up when traveling in a vehicle, and the ammo and firearm has to be locked-up separately.*

OK, I've been a this post for 15 mins.* I found the book that I was looking for titled "How to Own a Gun & Stay Our of Jail".

Here's a paragraph from the book.* It should clear things out some.* Take note though, that the author is also interpreting the laws in his own way.

"The best way to transport your handgun is to unload it, put it in a fully-enclosed, secure case or bag, and lock the case or bag with a small padlock, key lock, or combination lock.* Ammunition cannot be attached to the gun in a position where it is ready for firing.* Wehn the gun is in this case, you can trasport it in your car and you can carry it to and from any of the places where an exception to the concealed gun law applies to you.* When you trasnport the gun in your car in this manner, you can put it any place in your car except for the glove box or the utility box."

A lot of this sounds new to me because this book was last read in 2002, so any previous info that I post that doesn't correlate with this insert, I apologize.* It is just what my gun knowledge was at the time, right or wrong.

[JonSidneyB]

I have been pulled over on routine traffic stops and no one seemed to even care that there was a gun and ammo on the passenger seat.* I would probably get arrested in California because I would forget about the rules.* I have been doing this since 1980 with out a second thought.

I once rode on the interstate on a motorcycle with a Reminton 700 BDL slung across my back for 110 miles.* Not a single cop pulled me over to ask why I was doing this.* This was proably 1982.* The world as certainly changed as I proablly wouldn't do this today.

Shoot, I just rememberd.* I used to do the same thing on a bicycle but I didn't travel that far and was on local roads.

[Highvalleyranch]

I once rode on the interstate with a Reminton 700 BDL slung across my back for 110 miles.* Not a single cop pulled me over to ask why I was doing this.* This was proably 1982.* The world as certainly changed as I proablly wouldn't do this today.

Shoot, I just rememberd.* I used to do the same thing on a bicycle but I didn't travel that far and was on local roads.


Things like that are strange. Once in the 1970's I was practicing my martial arts in a public park in Fort Wayne, Indianna while visiting my wifes family. Somebody must have called the law about a guy with a big sword out there. This was before Kung Fu was well known. An officer parked his patrol car, walked up to where I was practicing with my broadsword, looked at me and without one word, turned and walked back to his car! Not a word was ever exchanged, and I continued to practice days afterwards.
HVR

[Gadget Guy]

Here is my new S&W 686. Thanks to everyone for their input into me making the right choice for me. :)

[glockstersharp]

O0 :D :pirate: :agree: :dance: :boing: :party: :whee: :thumbsup: :clap:

Darn, I miss mine! Excellent choice GG!

[Gadget Guy]

Thanks! ;D I just cracked out my gun vault for safe keeping of my gun. Has anyone ever installed the batteries in a gun vault? They couldn't make it any harder to do if they tried. You have to reach in the vault, pull back the foam, unscrew two bolts without being able to see them and all this in a area just big enough for my hand to fit. You then pull out the battery tray, load batteries, and reinstall the battery tray, but you also have to align the plate and battery tray together. I finally realized that the only way this would work was to tape the battery tray plate to the battery tray and reinstall the battery tray. Couldn't they have just had a spot inside to have a battery pack that slid out? I guess you would have to try it yourself. Anyone done this? :laugh:

[Deaths Head]

Here is my new S&W 686. Thanks to everyone for their input into me making the right choice for me. :)


Beautiful. when are you going to give a whirl?

[Gadget Guy]

My best guess is in a couple of weeks. I don't have a range near me, but I'm going to visit my brother and he has one a few miles from his house. I'm in no hurry though, as I still have a lot to learn about guns. I bought some snap caps and I want to get very comfortable with this gun before it's first use. Safety first you know! :)

[Deaths Head]

There's a nice outdoor range by my place. Has a lot of metal plinking-style targets going up a hill as the distance gets farther. You should come by and I'll show you how its done. ;)

[Gadget Guy]

I would like to do that. :highfive: You don't live too far from me, so let's make it happen.

[Deaths Head]

I would like to do that. :highfive: You don't live too far from me, so let's make it happen.

You live only about 2 hours away from me. I already checked it on Yahoo Maps. If there was a shooting range in between us, hypotheticallly speaking, we would only have to travel an hour each. But a max of 2 hours isn't bad at all. I would have no problem making that trip.

[jessyzaden169]

Actually it depends on what your looking 4. Do u have any idea?

[grayelky]

GadgetGuy-
Very nice choice. If I had gotten to this post prior to you purchasing a gun, I could not have added anything to the excellent advice you have gotten. You mention you only plan on getting one gun. I do not remember who, if it is even known, said, "Beware the man with one gun. He probably knows how to use it well." 'Nuff said.



This is my best Home protection gun, range gun, varmint and snake gun, and CCW. I also do my own reloading.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b357/P97/MyCCW.jpg

I like your engraving. You are obviously a man who prefers to please himself. Not many would have a Ruger engraved. Nice choice. See quote above.

[Gadget Guy]

grayelky, thanks! :highfive: So much for one gun though, I got a Ruger MK III for Christmas! :D I have so much to learn about guns, but I'm sure they will become part of my edc addiction.

[CY]

nothing teaches you trigger control like repetition.
IMHO it take a few thousand rounds to start getting competent.

assuming you are shooting a 9mm or larger round. unless you reload, costs will rack up quickly.
two ways to get in loads of rounds is a .22 pistol or an adult pump up air gun.

I've shot 6k+ rounds through my air rifles in the last 90 days. there's no way you can shoot that many rounds without improving trigger control.

used to not be able hit the side of a barn with my Walther PPK.. talk about a horrible shot!
2,000+ rounds later shooting Benjamin air pistol. surprise... I improved tremendously!

now can hit most anything with a high degree of accuracy. was getting 1/4in groups w/Benjamin at 20 ft.
weight and trigger of Benjamin is close to a firearm. so trigger time on Benjamin transfers to your full power firearm.