Training with BB/pellet guns

[jeffm]

Due to my location and lack of transportation, I don't get to the range that often anymore, so I was thinking about setting up a range in my basement with some sort of BB/pellet trap.

Does anyone else do this? What would be good BB/pellet guns to look at that simulate the real things? I'm especialy looking for something to simulate the feel of a Glock 19/23 and maybe even fit in the same holster.

Thanks,

-Jeff

[Bravo 25]

I don't know if Airsoft makes anything that resembles a Glock, but I have seen some that are close to a Baretta. I have thought of doing this with my 7 year old to get her started. There are several indoor bb traps available. Check with you local shooting, or sporting good store.

[Desertrat1]

Webley Tempest from Beeman. I've owned one for years. All my kids learned weapon safety and marksmanship on it. Fully adjustable sights and good feel. http://www.beeman.com/tempest.htm

[Sharpdogs]

This is what I sometime practice with in my garage.

http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/model.pl?model_id=614
http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/accessory.pl?accessory_id=70

I miss having a big back yard to shoot my pellet guns in.

[Amnesia Wes]

One of the downsides to training with a pellet gun, is that if many novice shooters have a tendency to 'flinch' while anticipating the recoil of a real firearm. With a pellet gun, you will not be able to correct this. Training with your real firearm, is the only way your muscle memory will automatically acllimate to the weight and feel of your gun.

It would probably be best, if you used a 'dummy' round, called 'snap caps', which would allow you to dry fire your firearm safely, and get the right 'feel' of your gun. A laser sight will also help with these 'dry-fires', as you will be able to physically see, if you're moving while pulling the trigger.

Just my $.02, and good luck

Wes.

[gearloose]

The Airsoft guns feel and work very realistically and the Glock 18 is just too much fun and as close as most of us will get to firing the full auto pistol. I have fired both and the airsoft is too cool and about $130. at Airsoft Atlanta.

[Bob Lindell]

http://www.airgunexpress.com/Gamo_Rifles-Pistols/gamoauto45airpisto701-09-4554.htm

This is a good thread. Balancing the need to practice, with finances is real-world stuff for me. Reloading isn't an option at this point, for me; and I'm unable financially to spend time at the range... I'd appreciate any more input members might have on this topic.

[fstmvr]

Hi all,

The basic rule of thumb is this: Airsoft pistols do allow you to practice the basics of marksmanship such as sight alignment and squeezing of the trigger. They are cheap to buy and feed in terms of ammo. You don't require any special range equipment hardened backstops.

Now with all that said, they don't have the true weight or handliing characteristics of your loaded firearm, nor do they have the accuracy that your real firearm would have. They also don't have the trigger pull of a real firearm. This is not to say that airsoft pistols don't have a place in firearms training, just don't expect them to work miracles.

There are several laser based training aids which allow you to use your real firearm to practice with. This gives you train with the actual weight, sights and trigger pull you'd have with the real thing. The downside is they are NOT cheap, they don't prepare you for the recoil or muzzle flash and finally, you have to be absolutely religious about locking up your ammunition and constantly checking your gun to ensure it's empty.

Just my .02 cents worth.

Lon ;D

[Lunal_Tic]

Tokyo Marui makes a number of Glock airsoft pistols. The gas or electric models will be closest to the feel and weight of the real thing.

-LT

[Deaths Head]

Tokyo Marui makes a number of Glock airsoft pistols.* The gas or electric models will be closest to the feel and weight of the real thing.

-LT

Do you have any links LT? I think I would be interested in one.

[Lunal_Tic]

Do you have any links LT? I think I would be interested in one.


Of course. ;D* Tokyo Marui Glock 18C Automatic Electric Gun (http://www.tokyohobby.net/store/product_details.php?p=689)

It's a lot of fun but I don't really use it for serious training.

-LT

[jmateer]

Simunitions >:D

[sean m]

I use a gamo revolver as a backyard trainer for my carry gun
Here is a link:
http://www.gamo-airguns.com/air-pistols.htm

[webley445]

some options though they may be a bit pricey

http://rap4.com/paintball/os/series-markers-pistol-rap17-c-21_158_79.html

there are also some guns that use fake shells that load up with primers and shoot a paint pellet. Used for training and they operate like the real thing. Friend of mine was wanting one, M4, was like shooting the real thing. Reloading, charging, firing, everything realistic

I'd go with CO2 as you will get at least a little "kick" with the full charge of CO2, but the airsoft is alot cheaper. At least you can learn trigger control and it would be helpful for close range defensive use (5 yds or less)


....hmmm......
how about these?
link 1 (http://www.montysminiguns.com/paintball.html)

link 2 (http://www.rustyspaintballgear.com/rs/catalog/details.asp?ID_Wep=7)

link 3 (http://www.t16.com/)

[davedavedavedave]

sorry for the necropost, but i thought i'd add a bit more information here.

Airsoft can be a very useful training tool (i've heard reports of various militarys using them for training) and also useful to teach young children with, after all, they only leave welts or bruises if your sprog gets enthusiastic.

you can get MANY different types of pistols in airsoft, including most of the glock family, a huge amount on 1911's, and a few others, including revolvers and up to desert eagles.

list of airsoft handguns, including manufacturers for you:

Glock family: Glock 26 (TM, KSC, KWA), Glock 17 (TM, KSC, KWA), Glock 18c (KSC, KWA, TM) Glock 19 (KSC KWA), Glock 34 (KSC, KWA), Glock 23f (KSC, KWA)
Beretta family: M92f (TM), M8045 cougar (WA), M84fs (WA), M93r ( Maruzen)
SIG family: P226 railed (TM, KJW,Tanaka) P232 (KSC), P2009 (KSC), P230 (KSC), P2340 (KSC), P220 (Tanaka) P228 (Tanaka)
1911 family: Colt 1911A1 (TM), Para-Ord P14.45/P14.15 combat carry (WA)
H&K family: Mk. 23 (TM, KSC) USP Comact (KSC, KWA), USP fullsize (KSC, KWA, Tanio Koba) VP-70/VP-70M (Tanio Koba)
Others: Desert Eagle .50 (TM), S&W Shorty 40 (WA), S&W Sigma 40F (WA) Walther P99/P99 compact (Maruzen), P38 (Maruzen), PPK/S (Maruzen) CZ75 (1st and second versions) (KSC, KWA) Luger P08 (Tanaka), Browning Hi-Power (tanaka)


that is NOT an extensive list. there are MANY more beretta and 1911 models, but i really can't be bothered to list the hundreds of variations that WA and others offer. most guns are around $100, although WA's are quite expensive, and plastic stock, so it'll cost around another $100 to get it full metal.


hope this helps someone :)

[eu_roca191]

Hi!

I own a Glock 19 and a KSC Glock GBB (gas blowback) pistol and having an airsoft version for your Glock would be a good training tool as long as you know it's limitations.

The advantages of having one is that it has the same manual of arms and approx wt as the real thing and it fits your holster and your mag pouches so you get to practice on the exact gear you use. With this you can safely practice drills you normally can't do at home with a live gun (eg. draw and fire, double taps, etc).

However, I believe that using the GBB to improve marksmanship isn't a really good idea since you don't get any real good accuracy from these guns and it's possible to learn bad habits such as flinching, looking over after you shoot, etc.

Personally, I would only use the GBB for fire-on-fire training which is something you can't really do with a real gun and would still try to go to the range as much as possible for live fire practice.

Here's a pic of the G19 and the Airsoft....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v738/juni_caro/Picture7.jpg

[greenLED]

The place where I train runs some of their scenarios with high-end BB guns and others with simmunition.

This might help (http://www.oregonconcealedcarry.com/index.php?showtopic=3539) if you decide to supplement your training with a BB gun. I use a BB target that has a sticky surface. Eventually the BB's roll down into a tray.

[carrot]

The KWA G19 with metal slide is about as close as you can get to a realistic Glock 19 in airsoft. It is powered by Green Gas (propane), has blowback (the slide moves realistically) and locks back when the last shot is fired. You can also get spare magazines that are similar in size and weight. The KWA G19 is very similar in weight to the real thing as well.

[adorable_harree]

I have the opinion that getting an airsoft gun in the same model as your real gun has more merits for it than against it...

Merits: low cost. Weapon familiarity. A good introduction to other family members how to operate the
real thing. Capability of force on force training with another partner of like mindset.

Whats not to like? The only problem I constantly see with airsoft guns is this: Some people, even trained and safe shooters when handed an airsoft gun routinely violate one or more basic safety procedures with them, because in their minds it is just a toy.

[davedavedavedave]

I agree. as airsoft guns can only really damage your eyes (wear eye protection at all times!) you are more likely to treat it like a toy and less safely. however, they're the perfect tools for teaching children or other people about gun safety, becuase they're so harmless. with the KSC/KWA glocks, you can lock the follower plate down, so the slide lock will never activate, and the gun will fire and cycle the slide like a real one (although with maybe a little less recoil). it would be easy to get your kids used to what guns are, how they work, and what they should and shouldnt do, considering you can leave it unloaded of gas and bb's, and it'll weigh about the same as a real one.

if anyone wants advice, i'm always more than happy to help. i''ve been popping into the EDC chat on irc.freenode.net #edc , but nobody really seems to talk to me. I' on CPF chat most nights ( irc.slashnet.org #cpf).

[greenLED]

The only problem I constantly see with airsoft guns is this: Some people, even trained and safe shooters when handed an airsoft gun routinely violate one or more basic safety procedures with them, because in their minds it is just a toy. Then, IMO, they're not safe shooters, and are not applying the proper mindset to their training. They're shortchanging themselves for when they revert to real guns.