Mag Safe Ammo

[xDANx]

Comments?

http://www.magsafeonline.com/

[alwilliam]

I disagree magsafes are way to frangible and might or might not blow up on a arm etc...Go with Ranger T or Godl Dots ....IMO

The quality has also gone way down since magsafe inventor and friend of mine( R.I.P.JOE ZAMBONE) sold the biz to a guy in florida a number of years ago.


Pic is a 9mm glaser blue that blew upon a elbow,magsafes pre-fragmented designs work the same way.

2nd pic is their own magsafe test...look how shallow the wound is and with small low energy secondary projectiles this makes for a overall poor round IMO.

[michael t]

NO YOU DON"T!!!! read this


http://www.firearmstactical.com/tacticalbriefs/volume4/number3/article432.htm

sorry just paste it will change your mind. Glaser Mag Safe advoid all

[GeorgeH]

I have used Magsafe ammo in my pocketguns since 1990. I am a big fan of frangible ammo. The street record of Glasser (now owned by CorBon) and MagSafe is impressive.

[alwilliam]

I have used Magsafe ammo in my pocketguns since 1990. I am a big fan of frangible ammo. The street record of Glasser (now owned by CorBon) and MagSafe is impressive.


I just do not like the rounds and you might find the street INFO on magsafe is BS Joe really could tell a tale and marshall and sanow WELL ::) ::) ! I worked with Joe(RIP :'() and Kay when they were in wash state on the 2nd gen 25acp magsafe that used the xtp jackets as the first gen 25acp was soooo useless.I also added a lot of feedback on the KD rounds and the 45acp SWAT rounds.

Glasers silvers are OK for summer clothing wear frontal shots IMO and so are the original J.Z. built KD rounds in 9mm and up,but any other use is not advised..just my crazy :idiot2: thoughts :D

[Sharpdogs]

I cannot carry in my state, but I do keep my Ruger Security Six loaded with Glasers. The houses are too close in my neighborhood to use any FMJ, so it's holowpoints and Glasers. If they do not work I have my back up team, a German Shepherd and Pit Mix. If an intruder tried to break in, they would most likely trip and fall on one of the hundreds of chew toys that my spoiled dogs leave around the house.

[alwilliam]

silvers are not to bad if you must carry glasers :)

[JonSidneyB]

I was involved in a shooting, I think If I was using magsafe ammo I would have been in big trouble. One of my shots had to pass through metal, heavy coats were also being worn. In fact as a result of my shooting, I changed what I carry, I might be a little less than rational but I now want a bullet that can punch through a barrier and still do at least some damage.

[xDANx]

Wow! you guys really changed my mind! I used to think magsafe was the S*** .

[fubar]

I am no expert in anything , just a concerned armed citizen. But - I am convinced that "overpenetration" is marketing hype.

I would bet my paycheck that innocents hit by mistake in gun fights are 20 to 1 compared to those hit by strays that were complete misses. Hits on target passing through and hitting innocents .... I sort of doubt it. Missing and going through the apartment wall makes sense to worry about , I guess.

But after reading about those tests I ask this in all seriousness , really : Wouldn't a CCI Stinger hi velocity 22 Long Rifle be a better , or viable choice ?

I carry a .380 , 9mm or .45 depending on my mood ... But my BOB has a Walther P22 with 2 boxes of Stingers in it.

[alwilliam]

I am no expert in anything , just a concerned armed citizen. But - I am convinced that "overpenetration" is marketing hype.

I would bet my paycheck that innocents hit by mistake in gun fights are 20 to 1 compared to those hit by strays that were complete misses. Hits on target passing through and hitting innocents .... I sort of doubt it. Missing and going through the apartment wall makes sense to worry about , I guess.

But after reading about those tests I ask this in all seriousness , really : Wouldn't a CCI Stinger hi velocity 22 Long Rifle be a better , or viable choice ?

I carry a .380 , 9mm or .45 depending on my mood ... But my BOB has a Walther P22 with 2 boxes of Stingers in it.




If you know for 100% sure the target will be in summer weight clothes and you will have a unobstructed full frontal shot...glaser silvers are wicked.... ;)

[Lee1959]

Overpenetration is a marketing ploy? Interesting concept, but not one I would bet my life or a loved ones on. I do not know how many people are actually injured by overpenetration, however, it is a very real world issue to consider, legally and morally. What one MUST remember is that you ARE legally and morally responsible for every bullet that leaves your weapon. I for one prefer to err on the side of caution.

Overpenetration is obviously less so with handgun calibers to be sure, but still something to be concerned with. I have shot various calibers through sheetrock and insulation just to see and it does penetrate right on through both walls often enough in every caliber I tried above rimfire to be a real concern. Included were .380 ACP, 9MM Makarov, .38 SP. , .357 magnum, .44 Special, .44 Magnum, and .45 ACP in various combinations of various manuf. hollow points and FMJ. No, they were not all the same, and it was not a scientifically controlled experiment. Just my simple tests for my own curiosity, along withthe added benefit of being handgun practice. But what I found opened my eyes. Your mileage of course can vary.

As far as Glassers and Magsafes, I have shot them for a number of years, and I have sort of centered around Glasser silvers (blues will substitue ok if grays are not available) for use in summer and the home. I do tend to use other hollow points for CCW when out in the late fall and winter because of bulky clothing issues

Again, strictly my opinion based upon my own experiences, others experiences may vary wildly.

[jmateer]

...Go with Ranger T or Gold Dots ....IMO

+1

I use 147gr Ranger T's.

[Southern Sunset]

What one MUST remember is that you ARE legally and morally responsible for every bullet that leaves your weapon. I for one prefer to err on the side of caution.

I do tend to use other hollow points for CCW when out in the late fall and winter because of bulky clothing issues

Agreed: Locational factors correlated with weather/seasonal conditions are a factor which should be considered. If you happen to live in a heavily populated urban environment where homes/apartments are either attached or in very close proximity to each other, over penetration or God forbid, a total miss is simply something you don't want to happen. The very idea that you had to fire in self defense is enough to worry about. In this type of environment, I would think frangibles do have a place.

If you live in an area where seasonal conditions come into play, CCW requirements would seem to dictate a need for ample penetration, as Lee1959 has pointed out. To engage a bad guy wearing heavy clothing with frangible ammo may not be your best option.

[oceanbeamer]

I communicate with people in harms way and have heard most state that the only ammo they trust ,can be found at http://rbcd.net/ ,I'm not affiliated with these people but there ammo is superb..IMO

[whippoorwill]

I use Magsafe in my bedside revolver, but I use hollowpoints in my carry guns. Cannot have penetration through walls of my house!

[docdredd]

hey guys
i used to teach advanced trauma management and the subject of terminal ballistics was a very big part of the class. i spent a year in baghdad as a medic and haive seen first hand that even rifle bullets inpropraly placed will not have the desired results. the only way to effectivly take out a person is to difrupt there central nervos system. IE head or spinal cord hits. a person can lose up to 20 % of his blood volume before he slips into shock that means that even with a shot directly to the heart the brain still has enough oxygen concentration to effectivly fight back for several seconds. now seconds may not seem like much to those of you who have never been in a fire fight but ask any one who has and they will set you strait. you need a bullet that will efectivly penetrate muliple layers of clothing and flesh and still have enough energy to disrupt the central nervos system.
On the subject of ammunition selection hollow points are the way to go. when a bullet penetrates your skin it creates 2 cavites. 1. is the permament wound cavity caused by the bullet boring through flesh 2. the temporary cavity caused by hydrostatic shock (laymans terms the energy the bullet transfers into your body causes a SHOCK WAVE effect that rips tissue and bursts cells ) . i have done research on several makes of hollow points and found that they are not all created equal . i will not go into details but it is all available under google for terminal ballistics. some brand name ammunition failed to expand, others experianced jacket core seperation, and the frangnigable stuff came in at the back of the pack.
hope this helps a bit
peace
doc silas

[Blades]

What is the saying..."a hit with a .22 is better then a miss with a .44".
Your best bet is to practice, practice and maybe a little more practice. :)
There is no magic bullet, yet.
:)



Blades

[adorable_harree]

Carried Glasers mostly in revolvers. Never trusted them in automatics eversince I saw someone on the range get malfunctions on his 1911.

Glasers and Magsafes in my humble opinion are speciality rounds...They are used within a certain context and the user must have the insight on how and when to use them.

For example, I carried an old Smith model 60 as a carry gun and being an old gun never went to the +p route. Loaded it with glasers. The gun's use primarily was as a close in contact distance (frontal presentation) weapon so accuracy wasn't an issue, so was the penetration. Well, the latter isn't really an issue since most of my fellow countrymen are averaging 5'5" in height and around 140 pounds, plus we are all rice fed. :)

But for other tactical applications go for a good proven hollowpoint.

[Ultra]

Those of you who worry about THE OH SO EVIL "over-penetration"...

You always say "I wouldn't bet MY LIFE or LOVED ONES LIFE" what man? what? are you shooting YOURSELF?? Are you carrying inside your house? WHAT?? Where did you learn these viewpoints? Who taught you this BULL? at home feel free to slip another mag in there with whatever hype frangible ultradeadly crap you want, but outside, are your "loved ones" in your line of sight out and about? Stop worrying so much, and be sure you carry something that WILL got through two car doors or that pickup-hatch plus rear wall plus seatback! If you wanna live, someone has got to die! There is no middle ground! And as long as you don't know, you're not responsible! Besides 99.9% of all "stray bullet deaths" are coming from MOVING VEHICLES WITH AUTOMATIC WEAPONS, whos operators spray a football-field sized area preferrably in front of a childrens playground! So there you have it.

I see a lot of misinformation in here every single day.

If you use hollowpoints you're begging to FAIL. worlds most famous would-be killing, salman rushdie, he got shot with 357 MAGNUM from a revolver POINT BLANK RANGE, hollowpoints (federal hydrashock i believe.) His coat plugged the shots and he got minimal injuries. HELLO..!!

I saw a video of swedish police trying to kill a dog, it took 14 shots of HOLLOWPOINT 9mm +P to the "upper body", and finally was finished off by a round to the head. It was alive AND RUNNING up until that last bullet.

[Lugsalot]

Ultra, calm down. If you can't be civil during a discussion then you'd do well to refrain from posting altogether, and that goes for everyone else as well. :mm:

To respond to the issue of defense load performance, here are my thoughts:

Overpenetration is bad. Underpenetration is bad. No one kind of ammunition can perform perfectly under ALL conditions. This is why training is so important.

If direct hits in the center of mass appear to have no effect, an attack to the central-nervous system (headshot) is the next course of action in most cases. The "Mozambique Drill" isn't just for subjects wearing body armor.

As far as anecdotal evidence is concerned, it proves nothing; under certain conditions ANYTHING from bullets to Boeings can fail catastrophically. I'm reminded of the oft-cited incident where a highway patrolman was shot dead with a .22 wielded by a man he'd shot 6 times with a .357 Magnum; this occurrence doesn't prove the patrolman's issued load was worthless anymore than it proves the .22LR round is a viable self-defense cartridge.

There are a lot of weapons and ammunition out in the world with which we can protect ourselves. Our choices in this field are based on equally numerous factors, many of them personal. What works for one may not work for another, and that's okay. To summarize, equipment can only take you so far. It is one's ability to adapt and react under pressure (with the aid of training) that is vital.

[alwilliam]

No pistol caliber,bullet design,etc...is 100% but modern designs like ranger t,gold dot,hst are very effective rounds. Leave the pre-frag,frangibles,wonder bullets to the nin.Go with proven design with a lead core and a copper jacket its yet to be beat.

[Rob72]

(1) And as long as you don't know, you're not responsible! Besides 99.9% of all "stray bullet deaths" are coming from MOVING VEHICLES WITH AUTOMATIC WEAPONS, whos operators spray a football-field sized area preferrably in front of a childrens playground! So there you have it.

I see a lot of misinformation in here every single day.
If you use hollowpoints you're begging to FAIL. worlds most famous would-be killing, salman rushdie, he got shot with 357 MAGNUM from a revolver POINT BLANK RANGE, hollowpoints (federal hydrashock i believe.) His coat plugged the shots and he got minimal injuries. HELLO..!!

I saw a video of swedish police trying to kill a dog, it took 14 shots of HOLLOWPOINT 9mm +P to the "upper body", and finally was finished off by a round to the head. It was alive AND RUNNING up until that last bullet.


(1) Yes indeed you are. Our liability does differ from LE (their standard is somewhat higher), but if you throw it, you own it. I'm not aware of any state shielding CCers from negligent homicide charges.

I'm not sure what your background is, but HPs are more efficacious than ball or frangibles against modestly covered people. As others have said, placement is king, but all things being equal... I spent a few years working on BGs that shot each other and shot by PD, I do have some basis for comparison.